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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
13. No. The 140mm rockets killed about 100 people - the rest were killed elsewhere by improvised rockets
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 06:50 PM
Sep 2013

of the type that are widely used in the Mideast by groups including Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.

Also, there is nothing in the UN report about the quality of the sarin used being such that only the gov't could have made it. These are serious misrepresentations by Ms. Power.

The larger 333mm improvised munitions (IRAMs) that killed the vast majority of people in eastern Damascus are cannibalized rocket motors with no guidance or stabilization and what appear to be truck mufflers bolted on top. They are not significantly more sophisticated than the improvised rocket assisted munitions (IRAMs) that various opposition groups and al-Qaeda has been observed using in several countries in the region.

The 333mm IRAMs are locally or regionally manufactured in workshops, not Russian munitions. The smaller, 144 mm artillery rockets are standard Soviet era munitions and the Syrian military has them in large numbers - but, they only carry about 2 liters of Sarin and only accounted for about one-in-seven of the fatalities, according to the HRW report.

The fact that two different types of munitions -- one improvised, the other standard military -- were used on different areas with very different effects is potentially significant. It's been established to a reasonable certitude that the smaller, more accurate, but less deadly military rockets were launched from either the military airfield or one of several nearby bases in the southwestern part of town near the suburb of Moadamiyeh that suffered relatively light casualties (about 100 killed.)

We now know based upon the UN report that larger improvised rockets, the ones that had a capacity of approximately 50 liters each, that killed most were launched from a location almost due west from Zamalka/Ein Tarma. Since these IRAMs have very short range, it is now clear that they were launched from the adjacent area known as Jobar, which is a contested area - not "regime-controlled territory" as the State Dept. report initially claimed. The UN study also contradicts the initial published reports that quoted opposition witnesses that the eastern launch site was likely the October Military Museum grounds. That is located about 2 kilometers to the north of the flight path determined for the larger rockets. So, we still don't know who launched the improvised rockets, and it appears that there is yet another party that has been using virtually identical rockets since that group reportedly introduced them to Syria late last year - Hezbollah, three of the members of which reportedly succumbed to Sarin gas exposure in Jobar that night.

Finally, the UN report says nothing about the quality or origins of the Sarin used, merely that the samples taken showed traces of Serin. While there variation is not great, about 10-20%, the percentage of victims who tested positive for Sarin poisoning was somewhat less for those from the eastern area where the improvised munitions were used. It is not known what accounts for this variation, but we might speculate that potentially this could be due to a Sarin of a different concentration or origin being used. If that were found to be the case, it would be further indication that potentially a militia or other third-party group was responsible for rocketing that area.

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Heh. n/t Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2013 #1
A compelling case has been made that Sarin was used and all the implications point at the government Agnosticsherbet Sep 2013 #2
No. The 140mm rockets killed about 100 people - the rest were killed elsewhere by improvised rockets leveymg Sep 2013 #13
We shall see. This report suggests that it is rather certain that the Assad government used JDPriestly Sep 2013 #15
Not if the CIA suppied rebels have been involved in it brisas2k Sep 2013 #17
That remains a possibility, but is less likely than it was before the report. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #18
Only a relatively small number were military rockets observed to come from the direction of gov't leveymg Sep 2013 #19
Some other major inconsistencies and misrepresentations in this matter: leveymg Sep 2013 #21
There is no John2 Sep 2013 #3
Ah yes, the "nuh-uh!" and "NO U" rebuttals. Classics of the genre. (nt) Posteritatis Sep 2013 #4
This is the one who keep asking : Sand Wind Sep 2013 #6
Your loyalty to Assad would be touching if geek tragedy Sep 2013 #22
Did you leave out the paragraph that said the found evidence had been handled/moved prior to azurnoir Sep 2013 #5
Well before the Damascus gas attack took place . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #7
Samantha Power is the worst. arewenotdemo Sep 2013 #10
Samantha Power . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #24
Wasn't the impression I got from her books, but hey. (nt) Posteritatis Sep 2013 #37
Every hunmanitarian crisis I have seen her comment on . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #55
She is just jizzing in her pants at the thought of invading Syria AngryAmish Sep 2013 #65
It would be great if you linked sources for that. leveymg Sep 2013 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author another_liberal Sep 2013 #27
I relented . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #33
Does this mean that the UN will bomb Syria and announce Assad a criminal? lovuian Sep 2013 #8
That could be the best strategy of all. Sand Wind Sep 2013 #9
Will You Be one of the First In Wolf Frankula Sep 2013 #11
Sorry...I'd believe very little of what she says along with Susan Rice. KoKo Sep 2013 #12
+! 2banon Sep 2013 #66
Now this is the way to handle such situations. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #14
what is very damning is the fact the UN team states unequivocally that the evidence azurnoir Sep 2013 #16
Russia's quick response to offer an agreement suggests to me that Russia knows very well JDPriestly Sep 2013 #20
There is another explanation for why Russia AND Assad moved quickly to give up CWs: loss of control leveymg Sep 2013 #25
Why not admit to that? joshcryer Sep 2013 #36
That was also a red-line, remember? leveymg Sep 2013 #44
I don't buy it. joshcryer Sep 2013 #46
It would cause an uproar and goes so far against the conventional narrative it could set off leveymg Sep 2013 #49
How heavy is the Al Qaeda presence in those contested areas? Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #63
it's part of the UN inspection teams report azurnoir Sep 2013 #30
The Kremlin's talking points have gone out apparently nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #23
and you're claiming the UN team is quoting them? azurnoir Sep 2013 #28
Obfuscate away. All evidence points to the regime. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #29
I was citing the UN inspection teamns report so you're cherry picking that? n/t azurnoir Sep 2013 #31
You claimed it was damning that the scene had been disturbed geek tragedy Sep 2013 #32
The UN team said the evidence had been handled/moved prior to their arrival azurnoir Sep 2013 #39
No they didn't. That's your attempt to spin their words to give cover to your boy Assad.nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #52
My 'boy' Assad? just where do you get that from? azurnoir Sep 2013 #53
You sound exactly like his defense lawyer will if they ever get him out of power alive. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #54
you appear to say that being anti-war means being anti-US or something azurnoir Sep 2013 #56
The facts released by the UN establish that it was the regime geek tragedy Sep 2013 #57
The report established nothing of the sort that was not the mission of the UN team azurnoir Sep 2013 #58
So you, Putin, and Larry "whitey tape" Johnson say. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #59
show us where the UN's mission was to establish who used Sarin azurnoir Sep 2013 #60
It was not allowed to pursue that line. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #61
the hypothesis is your very own azurnoir Sep 2013 #62
They did not say that. joshcryer Sep 2013 #35
it does not say that it says the evidence was moved /handled prior to the teams inspections azurnoir Sep 2013 #38
It does not say that munitions used as evidence were moved! joshcryer Sep 2013 #40
That is NOT the statement from the UN report you made up that entire statement azurnoir Sep 2013 #41
I typed it EXACTLY as your link, page 22. joshcryer Sep 2013 #42
OMG I wish I could say I can't believe the dishonesty in your statement azurnoir Sep 2013 #43
Admit it, you got caught misrepresenting the evidence. joshcryer Sep 2013 #45
you got caught attempting to spin it azurnoir Sep 2013 #47
the munitions weren't moved, you lied joshcryer Sep 2013 #48
now your just making that up what exactly was the UN using as evidence azurnoir Sep 2013 #51
The pictures show mostly whole munitions! joshcryer Sep 2013 #64
Married to Cass Sunstein Aerows Sep 2013 #34
You may not be aware of this, but geek tragedy Sep 2013 #50
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