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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
15. Beecause the US does not respect our human rights enough to treat Snowden with respect for the
Wed Sep 18, 2013, 04:53 PM
Sep 2013

service he rendered to our democracy.

The people who defend the NSA have not thought through what the surveillance means for our country. In the late 1970s when the Supreme Court ruled that police may collect metadata, they were deciding a specific case concerning the collection of evidence in the narrow facts of a legitimate investigation of a crime that had occurred. That is not what the NSA surveillance is about. Not at all.

You have a First Amendment right to freedom of association. That means that Congress can pass no law that permits anyone in government to interfere with your free association with anyone in the world. The First Amendment arguably does not apply to foreign nationals outside the US. But it most definitely applies to all communications of Americans. It is not a freedom that is limited geographically to "within the United States," not in my reading of the plain text. It prohibits the government from limiting the association of Americans, period. That is my opinion. If the Congress has enabled the NSA to collect all the metadata on your communications, how can you or anyone else associate with others or ultimately organize freely?

You have a First Amendment right of freedom of religion. That means that the government cannot pass a law that authorizes any employee to limit your right to freedom of religion at all. But if the NSA can collect your metadata without any cause at all, much less probable cause, how can you really be free in your religious search, expression and association?

You have a First Amendment right of freedom of the press. That means that the government cannot pass or impose any law that abridges (limits) your right to read any news or obtain any information from the media that the media can provide. How can you enjoy the freedom of the press if the NSA is spying on reporters to discover their sources?

And in that context, think of Thomas Paine. He published the documents that stirred the hearts of the patriots in our American Revolution. The NSA and our government would surely have threatened him as they threaten Edward Snowden. We are supposed to be a country that encourages freedom of information and free dissent. A criminal, including terrorists, is defined as one who has committed a crime. How can a journalist be a criminal under the First Amendment? So why should journalists be under investigation.

Our government is far too dependent on its secrecy laws for keeping the peace and establishing what it considers to be "security" in the country. Think about what happened with the Occupy movement. Were they a threat to the security of the country? I don't think so. A messy inconvenience at most in all places in which they were nonviolent. (And that was most everywhere.)

The NSA and our military are a small elite in the country. They are not elected. They barely even answer to our elected officials. They have willingly and conspicuously lied to our Congress. We should be finding out much more about what is going on in their hidden, undemocratic, possibly very corrupt halls. The existence of such a "special" protected cabal within our otherwise democratically elected government is a huge threat. Snowden and his revelations are no threat at all compared to the threat of this very powerful, very secretive clique in our government. Which, by the way, has taken access to all kind of information that could be used to intimidate or blackmail at the NSA's whim.

The NSA spying is incompatible with even a shadow of a democracy. It makes a mockery of everything that previous generations of Americans fought and died for. It is in my opinion unconstitutional.

There was a time when slavery was considered to be lawful, to comply with the Constitution. The NSA spying enslaves our communications, and will destroy what we have left of democracy. I know this sounds extreme, hair-on-fire they say. But think about it. If you do, you will agree with me.

Of course those under 65 probably did not take a good government course and probably never really learned much about the US Constitution. The Nixon administration and the right wing of the US got so scared after the Viet Nam demonstrations that the serious study of government was all but removed from high school curricula.

To whom did the files that Edward Snowden allegedly "stole" really belong? To that elite clique in the NSA who were never elected and who live and "serve" through series of weak administrations and snub their noses at money-grubbing members of Congress, waiting until they get the right court in order to expand NSA power?

No. The files that Edward Snowden "stole" belong to you and me and every other American.

So, no. I don't see Edward Snowden as the person who violated an enforceable law here. He was acting in the greatest American tradition which places limits on unrestrained, out-of-control authority in a nonviolent way.

I don't think of Edward Snowden as a hero. I think of him as having done the job that others in the NSA should have been doing on behalf of his employers, the American people.

Well rtracey Sep 2013 #1
So Snowden was a thief because he exposed illegal activity??? Indi Guy Sep 2013 #3
Oh, they were a thief alright. Ash_F Sep 2013 #8
Another question: Lonr Sep 2013 #2
really? think_critically Sep 2013 #4
He had everything to lose and nothing to gain personally for blowing the whistle on... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #6
absolutely think_critically Sep 2013 #9
If you were thinking critically... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #12
Seeking asylum in Russia wasn't the intention and I think you know that. (?) 2banon Sep 2013 #14
He spent days in the Russian embassy in Hong Kong before traveling to Russia struggle4progress Sep 2013 #45
You misquoted me.. 2banon Sep 2013 #56
update: just heard in an interview French Press says Snowden was at Russian Embassy 2banon Sep 2013 #61
It was reported in the Russian paper Kommersant and in the South China Morning Post struggle4progress Sep 2013 #62
James Brooke is with VOA.. go figure 2banon Sep 2013 #63
Mebbe you prefer Izvestia? struggle4progress Sep 2013 #64
From your quote: christx30 Sep 2013 #22
Do you honestly believe other countries were in the dark... 2banon Sep 2013 #23
I don't think it's news christx30 Sep 2013 #25
ok.. but I'm unclear .. 2banon Sep 2013 #27
Why does it matter that the 4th amendment is being christx30 Sep 2013 #31
Completely Agree.. 2banon Sep 2013 #44
Let's say it like it is... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #46
Well put! 2banon Sep 2013 #58
The Chinese press reported, only days before the Obama-Xi summit, that Snowden struggle4progress Sep 2013 #47
Got a link? n/t Indi Guy Sep 2013 #48
I'll let you track down the SCMP links yourself; in my experience, their website is very slow struggle4progress Sep 2013 #50
Lol. Please list those countries willing to give asylum that fit your criteria. nt Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #38
So is this DU or a Freedom Works website? Rockyj Sep 2013 #7
After the way Bradley Manning has been treated? n/t TxGrandpa Sep 2013 #11
Beecause the US does not respect our human rights enough to treat Snowden with respect for the JDPriestly Sep 2013 #15
Exactly JDP.. 2banon Sep 2013 #24
Wow!... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #30
Excellent post - thanks! (n/t) Nihil Sep 2013 #37
I hope you will make this an OP. woo me with science Sep 2013 #52
The answer here is simple... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #5
It really is that simple Link Speed Sep 2013 #10
Because there are still a lot of swooners and a lot of surveillance groupies. PSPS Sep 2013 #16
NSA security pretty much sucks. GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #13
The NSA pretty much sucks. PSPS Sep 2013 #19
I'd bet it wouldn't have taken 3 months to get this far in their investigation TriplD Sep 2013 #17
They've really slacked off in the last 20 years htuttle Sep 2013 #18
Thank you for a very interesting link. nt Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #39
One I. T. guy single handedly circumvents the most sophisticated security system in the world PuffedMica Sep 2013 #20
that`s seems to be the truth... madrchsod Sep 2013 #21
Either that... 2banon Sep 2013 #26
No one expected him to be a thief and betray his charge. They won't make that mistake again, I'm MADem Sep 2013 #28
How do view Alexander and Clapper? 2banon Sep 2013 #33
I don't. I don't regard them as the sharpest tools in the shed, certainly. MADem Sep 2013 #35
That's allot of speculation there. Indi Guy Sep 2013 #36
I don't think he did. MADem Sep 2013 #42
How do you feel about the NSA's illegal practices... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #49
The legality of the programs isn't entirely clear. I'm not thrilled, but I'm also not thrilled MADem Sep 2013 #51
Well let's clear up the question of legality first... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #53
That's not the whole program, though. MADem Sep 2013 #55
I respect your opinion, and you may be right, however... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #60
I saw it, and the reason my mind goes the other way MADem Sep 2013 #65
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Indi Guy Sep 2013 #67
Oh sure--I'm not claiming any special insight, here. MADem Sep 2013 #68
One thing that I hope we can agree on is that... Indi Guy Sep 2013 #69
Snowden has made the USA incapable of understanding that the NSA-PRISM their one and only tool to a ehcross Sep 2013 #29
It's clear you actually believe those assertions 2banon Sep 2013 #32
"The NSA doesn't exist to protect American Citizens" Kolesar Sep 2013 #40
I think even a cursory review of it's history... 2banon Sep 2013 #43
Great party line propaganda there ehcross. n/t Indi Guy Sep 2013 #34
You should study the actual history of 9/11 and disabuse yourself of these silly notions. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #41
''NSA's chief technology officer, Lonny Anderson..... DeSwiss Sep 2013 #54
because that would mean vilifying a company that pays good money to politicians to not be held yurbud Sep 2013 #57
He may have not been the only person who had access to download internal files. Sunlei Sep 2013 #59
Security guard falls asleep; thieves rob store: we blame the guards AND the thieves alcibiades_mystery Sep 2013 #66
When you say "we" you don't mean DU Democat Sep 2013 #70
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