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barbtries

(31,298 posts)

20. people getting away with murder.

Reply to secondvariety (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 26, 2012, 09:46 AM

Feb 2012

how can anyone call this successful.

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Minnesota's controversial deadly force bill advances [View all] Little Tich Feb 2012 OP

So how do "I feel" right now? Coffee? Tea? Deadly force? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #1

Look out! That plastic bag being blown down the street might be hiding a terrorist! baldguy Feb 2012 #113

When Florida expanded it's laws there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Edweird Feb 2012 #2

Shoot first...ask questions later. 1620rock Feb 2012 #3

A perfect example of the type of hyperbole I am referring to. Edweird Feb 2012 #4

2 kids were shot in my town for trying to steel a can of beer each pasto76 Feb 2012 #49

Not to me. eom boppers Feb 2012 #96

When I hear "Shoot first . . . ask questions later" existentialist Feb 2012 #23

So, you are accusing the policemen of wailing? Kolesar Feb 2012 #13

The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association does not speak for rank-and-file police officers slackmaster Feb 2012 #30

I didn't ask you...eom Kolesar Feb 2012 #58

Then I'll answer for him Neue Regel Feb 2012 #95

I suppose secondvariety Feb 2012 #14

people getting away with murder. barbtries Feb 2012 #20

Something that hasn't happened in any other state where similar changes in the law have been made slackmaster Feb 2012 #22

If they got away with it, then how would you know? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #29

You're the one who claimed that there is a problem, i.e. "people getting away with murder" slackmaster Feb 2012 #31

Check web for hundreds of cases where "accidental shooting" passed for a second; then gets exposed Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #43

Statistics for the whole population outweigh any number of anecdotes you can come up with slackmaster Feb 2012 #44

Declines in gun-related deaths attributable to 10 different factors; not just yours Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #48

You mean like how only 331... primavera Feb 2012 #105

I'm glad you were able to figure out how to make WISQARS spit out numbers slackmaster Feb 2012 #107

gerb barbtries Feb 2012 #33

It came to me in a dream last night. A friend of mine who is prone to neologisms uttered it. slackmaster Feb 2012 #45

Neologisms are characteristic of certain forms of mental illness Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #46

Your reply does not follow logically from what I posted, and appears to be a personal attack. slackmaster Feb 2012 #47

LOGIC: You advocate looser shooting regs. Counter: gives persons with bad judgment too much freedom Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #51

it will now. barbtries Feb 2012 #56

Yes, I checked it a few minutes ago. My neologician friend will be amused. slackmaster Feb 2012 #59

Seriously? You're using Florida as an argument FOR such laws? baldguy Feb 2012 #114

Lack of any verifiable resulting harm to public safety is a perfectly good argument for expanded... slackmaster Feb 2012 #123

Sounds Like DallasNE Feb 2012 #5

If you are interested in seeing what the bill actually says... slackmaster Feb 2012 #8

I looked at it; the new law just gives lots more room for accidents. Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #32

It appears to me that although you read it, you have failed to understand it slackmaster Feb 2012 #37

See my remarks above Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #52

"Reasonable Belief" Is The Threshold DallasNE Feb 2012 #62

For some people my examples would qualify as self-defense. Oneka Feb 2012 #66

Why hasn't the blood been flowing on the streets of Florida... spin Feb 2012 #94

Is "he looked big, Black and scary" considered "threat" enough McCamy Taylor Feb 2012 #6

You will find the answers to all of your questions starting at line 4.26 at the link I am providing slackmaster Feb 2012 #9

It's now open season on human beings! Yeeahhhhh! Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #12

Does she commit a lot of felonies? Gore1FL Feb 2012 #16

Problem? The subjective element: you can shoot someone "reasonably believed" is committing a crime Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #36

I hope you get the chance to serve on a trial jury some time, especially a criminal case slackmaster Feb 2012 #38

But now? As of these laws? Those rules are looser Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #40

The proposed rules for Minnesota are no "looser" than long-standing California law slackmaster Feb 2012 #41

"Reasonably believed" has a standard definition in these cases. ManiacJoe Feb 2012 #78

Too bad it doesn't specify something like "and no other alternatives were available". DebJ Feb 2012 #80

DebJ, I believe that people who own deadly weapons should be trained in legal and moral aspects... slackmaster Feb 2012 #115

We've had essentially the same law in California for several decades slackmaster Feb 2012 #24

The problem is, now there enough slack to encourage hasty, bad judgement Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #39

If that was the case, more fatal accidental shootings would show up in statistics. They don't. slackmaster Feb 2012 #42

There are 10 different factors to acccount for lower accidental shootings; yours is only one Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #50

Your replies in this thread are consistently devoid of verifiable facts, Brettongarcia slackmaster Feb 2012 #110

The first graphs, are about what people WANT. No real stats at all, about what probably WORKS Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #116

Your previous reply dealt with attitudes. A properly done poll measures those objectively. slackmaster Feb 2012 #118

Open season on human beings?? really??? Oneka Feb 2012 #67

See my example above; of the mother-in law without a key, breaking in. Mistaken for an intruder Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #70

agreed Oneka Feb 2012 #74

GOOD POINT in bill's favor, to be sure: current system makes self-defense a crime, at first? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #83

Thank you for your condolence Oneka Feb 2012 #92

Could you provide a link to any relevant news coverage of your violent tragedies? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #100

without Oneka Feb 2012 #102

You are all missing the point. You are using examples in a house. Thor_MN Apr 2012 #125

Oh. My. GAWD! They want to make Minnesota's laws on self defense similar to those in... slackmaster Feb 2012 #7

Oh, really? DFW Feb 2012 #10

Another solution in search of a problem.n/t. Scruffy1 Feb 2012 #11

No. it doesn't mean that at all. Gore1FL Feb 2012 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Feb 2012 #21

A very similar law has been in effect for several decades here in California slackmaster Feb 2012 #25

If a lawyer could convince a jury that was reasonable assumption on his client's behalf Gore1FL Feb 2012 #28

do we see this happening now? Oneka Feb 2012 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Feb 2012 #64

Did you lose your "loophole"? n/t Oneka Feb 2012 #68

"Preventing" Is The Language Of Self-Defense DallasNE Feb 2012 #65

New ballgame, Same as the old ballgame? Oneka Feb 2012 #69

Both are blank checks: 1) "Reasonable," AND 2) "prevent.' Though ... Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #71

My point is. Oneka Feb 2012 #79

Hope you are right Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #81

This is secondvariety Feb 2012 #84

Defensive gun uses may increase with Oneka Feb 2012 #89

So Why Have A New Law? DallasNE Feb 2012 #88

There are other provisions in the law Oneka Feb 2012 #90

I Still Don't Buy It DallasNE Feb 2012 #97

So if my mother-in-law breaks into my house without her key, and I shoot her; her folks can't sue? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #98

but Oneka Feb 2012 #104

The point would be that indeed, complicted scenarios - and abuses - can multiply with this law. Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #117

The kind of law proposed for MN has been in place in California for several decades slackmaster Feb 2012 #119

This has happened Oneka Feb 2012 #120

You would absolutely be justified Doctor_J Feb 2012 #55

So if an SUV or pick up; greiner3 Feb 2012 #15

If you believe that to be a societal standard. Gore1FL Feb 2012 #17

So the actual decision is up to stupid people. Great. saras Feb 2012 #54

I don't believe that would pass the "good faith" test slackmaster Feb 2012 #26

you just FEEL it? barbtries Feb 2012 #19

No, that is not even close to what the bill says slackmaster Feb 2012 #27

that's what the woman in the OP was quoted as saying. barbtries Feb 2012 #34

Good news. Fortran Feb 2012 #35

Gun Nuts fascisthunter Feb 2012 #53

Hoffman is like Bachmann's dumber sister... spedtr90 Feb 2012 #60

This is a Republican bill. Next, they'll move on to banning abortions... Comrade Grumpy Feb 2012 #61

So is it safe to assume Oneka Feb 2012 #63

But now every man takes the law into his own hands. Trigger-happy men. Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #72

Taking the law Oneka Feb 2012 #77

How about your right, not to be shot at by every damn-fool, that mistakenly said you weredangerous? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #82

If this law passes. Oneka Feb 2012 #87

So I could pick a violent argument with someone in my home 'n shoot 'em dead. And everythings good? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #99

Picking a fight takes you out of the realm for arguing that you acted in self-defense slackmaster Feb 2012 #111

See reply above Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #121

111 was a response to your reply above. I've read all of your others. None of them refute 111. slackmaster Feb 2012 #122

I have given up freedom gladly in the past Doctor_J Feb 2012 #108

Yes, this bill will be cheered loudly in the gungeon Doctor_J Feb 2012 #85

cheered loudly Oneka Feb 2012 #93

Five years since Florida enacted "stand-your-ground" law, justifiable homicides are up brentspeak Feb 2012 #73

Taking law into their own hands, many gun-happy folks are killing innocent people Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #75

Hopefully Bubba got prosecuted,, N/t Oneka Feb 2012 #91

Yup, Bubba is getting prosecuted. But? Too late for dead victim Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #101

Sadly for this deceased young man Oneka Feb 2012 #103

Here's the part that the gun nuts just refuse to confront Doctor_J Feb 2012 #106

Just to insert some facts into the conversation, ManiacJoe Feb 2012 #76

Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team) sfghrtjr Feb 2012 #86

good luck to our friends getting this signed. ileus Feb 2012 #109

A similar law has worked out very well for us here in California for several decades slackmaster Feb 2012 #112

It's harmless? Now flash ahead to just March 2012 - and Travon Martin Brettongarcia Apr 2012 #124

"Castle doctrine" is not the same as "stand your ground"... -..__... Apr 2012 #126

Not quite. Thanks to "Stand Your Ground" Thor_MN Apr 2012 #127