Caught on video: Father with family in SUV chased, beaten by speed-demon bikers

[AtheistCrusader]

378. You can't even accurately repeat back my position, how am I supposed to trust your inference of

the position of those helmets?

"There is no question whatsoever despite your deliberate blindness to all evidence that these thugs harassed the Lien family for having the audacity to get passed their illegal road block so they could have the highway to themselves to do their filmed stunts just as they have every year and which is documented in their own videos all over the internet."
I have accepted, repeatedly, that what they were doing, from closing the right of way, to lane changes, etc, were all illegal. That is not interesting to the question of whether or not Mr. Lien was justified in running over a human being with a 5,300lb vehicle, deliberately.

"But you have throughout this thread absolutely ignored absolutely all evidence against these dangerous thugs that is so violently persistent you have me convinced utterly of one thing... you are either one of these bikers or know someone that is."
That is simply a lie. I have accepted evidence from other posters that clarifies what happened, such as the time at which the tire separated from the rim. Prior to that, I maintained it was possible the tire was slashed at the final encounter, because at that time, there was no evidence the tire was flattened at all. Once I saw the picture of the bare rim, not only did I accept that evidence that the tire had to be slashed or punctured earlier, I actually pointed it out to the person I was discussing it with at the time, and that poster responded with the time in the video that the tire/rim separation occurs. I have accepted several counter-points and pieces of evidence. So do not pretend to be all indignant and righteous, when you are lying about my position.

"Someone that deliberately brake checks you is trying to do you harm either financially or physically or both."
Or they are just being a dick. The financial brake checks are considerably more dynamic than the brake tap, roll-off of the throttle you see in the video. But the rider is compelled by law to stop, after making contact. His bike, and he are ok, but he undoubtedly damaged the bumper of the SUV. His actual motive could be a range of doing what is right, or just be an asshole and yell at the guy, I do not know. I cannot see what he does, after that point in the video. Neither can you.

"The police KNEW what they were doing, from previous years and this year attempted to at least block them from getting all the way to Times Square by setting up numerous points where they were able to nab 15 bikers and confiscate now 57 bikes. Most of these bikes are stolen, the ones with plates have mostly illegal plates, or no plates at all. Over 200 911 calls went into report these bikers for their thuggery and recklessness on the roads while all this was going on. Lien called 911 himself long before the brake check even occurred because of the blocking of the on ramp and the harassment for getting passed it."
None of this is interesting to the question of whether Lien is justified in running over a person with his vehicle intentionally. The bar for justifiability would be the same if he had instead chosen to shoot the guy. Unjustifiably running someone over is assault with a deadly weapon, just like a gun. I am being consistent in my application of digging for facts, regardless of whether this is Lien's situation, or Zimmerman, or any other number of instances of self defense with and without firearms. I don't care if my consistency upsets you.

"You've fallen all over yourself to try excusing these thugs despite all the evidence you fucking refuse to acknowledge."
Another lie. A double-lie in fact. I have acknowledged every scrap of evidence that has been brought up so far, and I have NOT excused the bikers at all. In fact, I have acknowledged multiple times that they may bear 100% responsibility, and that Mr. Lien may have been completely justified in fleeing. Several times. In this thread. Do not lie about my position.

"pounding on other peoples' vehicles for having the audacity to legally use the road with their own right of way."
Are each of those people whose car's were pounded on justified in running over a human in response, or is there possibly a continuum of force/reasonable response here?

"NONE of the other riders needed to get off their bikes, yet many DID, and they did to harrass and threaten the occupants of the vehicle just as they have done every fucking year to any driver that doesn't let them have their illegal private use of whatever road they're on AS THEY HAVE DONE EVERY YEAR."
How many, exactly, is 'many' riders?

"And yes, you CAN see in the video a group of bikers on the passenger side of the vehicle and the tops of two or more helmeted heads at the roof line right up against the vehicle - freeze the frames and blow them up if you have to."
I see a couple helmets, probably only two, but they could be in front or beyond the vehicle. I can, however tell you what I DON'T see. I don't see those helmets moving in a excited manner. I don't see arms rising and falling, I don't see them charging toward, or doing anything like you would expect if they were exerting physical force.


I have repeatedly asked and hoped for additional footage. (There are more cameras mounted on more helmets) Because I would very much like to clear up this point, and despite your claims to the contrary, I have repeatedly expressed the possibility that they DID intimidate Mr. Lien in a reasonable manner as to cause him to fear for his life or that of his family, which could justify his subsequent actions. I just don't assume it with the evidence at hand.

There are some people, even some right here on this forum, that actually expressed that George Zimmerman might have been justified in using deadly force, because of his nose, and the back of his head. I didn't believe their claims either.

An exercise of deadly force in self defense MUST be justifiable, whether it be done with a firearm, a motor vehicle, or a 12" floppy rubber dildo. It doesn't matter which it is.

If you wish to continue, please first cease misrepresenting/lying about what I said upthread. It's all there for everyone to see.