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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
61. Franklin defended Slavery too, and owned a couple.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:06 PM
Nov 2013

Why else did he sign the US Constitution? In 1787 only Massachusetts had outlawed slavery, Slavery was legal is every other state of the Union.

Ben Franklin even owned slaves:

http://www.benjaminfranklinhouse.org/site/sections/about_franklin/Issue%205%20Spring-Summer%20200%20Benjamin%20Franklin%20and%20Slavery.pdf

http://articles.philly.com/2006-02-25/news/25409649_1_chattel-slavery-ben-franklin-kidney-stones

http://benjaminfranklinbio.com/benjamin-franklin-and-slavery/147/

Yes. in his old age and the problems slaves had caused during the Revolution, he came around to ending slavery, but he had owned slaves almost his whole adult life and except for his last years, defended the institution.

Forest never defended slavery as anything else then something to profit by, he never considered it good and proper, just profitable. He accepted the concept of Slavery coming to an end, even seeking out African American support it is later years (Something Franklin never did).

Now we are looking at the start of the movement to abolish slavery when it comes to Franklin, and the aftermath when it comes to Forest (who died in 1877). Over 30 years separate the death of Franklin and the birth of Forest. On the other hand, Franklin owned slaves when it was becoming easier and cheaper to free them, while Forest lived at a time where freeing slaves was almost illegal in most Slave States.

Another way to look it is, was Franklin did NOT have to own slaves to maintain his wealth, Forest, do to his profession as a trader had to keep them as an object of trade so Forest could maintain his wealth. Thus which is worse, someone who did NOT need slaves (Franklin) but owned them, or one that had to owned Slaves as part of how he made his living (Forest). I can make the argument Franklin was worse on that ground alone.

Now, Franklin did join in the movement to abolish slavery in the 1780s, but that was a time period when slavery was dying on its own (the invention of the Cotton Gin would reverse that movement). Thus Franklin was joining an on going and growing movement that appeared headed for victory (no one could predict the effect of the Cotton Gin in 1795 but it reversed the economic pressure from economic pressure to end slavery to economic pressure to expand it and make it worse then it had been). Forest lived in an area where Slavery was on the March, the Deep South. Abolishment of Slavery was not even talked about by the locals, thus not an issue to him or the people he associated with. Thus in many ways Forest was a victim of his time (as was Robert E, Lee, Mosby and other Southern Leaders), slavery was on the march and expanding. You either have to join the march or stay out of its way, and by the 1850s no one in the south could stay out of the way of the March for Slavery and thus Southern joined the movement to protect slavery in mass. It would be nice to say I would have avoided that movement if I lived in the South in the 1850s, but I have my doubts. I do not think anyone could have avoided that movement if they lived in the deep South (Tennessee, North Carolina and Virginia yes, but not the other states of the Confederacy).

Recommendations

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Good for them! k8conant Nov 2013 #1
Duh Scairp Nov 2013 #64
Glad to hear about this. I hope it's the start of a trend. (nt) Paladin Nov 2013 #2
+ struggle4progress Nov 2013 #3
I think "founder of Ku Klux Klan" overrides mere "Confederate general" there. Ugh. (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2013 #4
very surprised at this dlwickham Nov 2013 #5
Me, too. North Florida is Mississippi south. Faygo Kid Nov 2013 #7
I've lived in Jacksonville twice dlwickham Nov 2013 #20
I thought north Florida... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #26
Oh yeah it is Scairp Nov 2013 #65
I was in Jacksonville last month. I got some good middle eastern food there. MADem Nov 2013 #30
The time for honoring traitorous "heroes" is long past Major Nikon Nov 2013 #6
Well butter my ass and call me a biscuit, what liberal heresy is this in FLORIDA. Rebellious Republican Nov 2013 #8
I think most of them moved mercymechap Nov 2013 #10
Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #12
By trailer trash... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #27
Good. reflection Nov 2013 #9
KNR DirkGently Nov 2013 #11
Treyvon Martin, George Zimmerman................ Rebellious Republican Nov 2013 #13
I had to endure Robert E. Lee High School in 1965. Its student body was true to the Southern ancianita Nov 2013 #14
So they removed the name of the First General to offer freedom to slaves???? happyslug Nov 2013 #15
Forrest founded the KKK. nt awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #28
Also disbanded it. happyslug Nov 2013 #45
You are defending a traitor... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #54
I have a weakness for Traitors happyslug Nov 2013 #57
You want to compare a defender of slavery... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2013 #60
Franklin defended Slavery too, and owned a couple. happyslug Nov 2013 #61
The First KKK was racist too, what is this foolishness you are posting? CreekDog Nov 2013 #66
I never said the First KKK was NOT racist happyslug Nov 2013 #70
He was a traitor to this country.... paleotn Nov 2013 #35
Good for those reasons we should rename many of the Military bases in the South. happyslug Nov 2013 #44
What is the source of your dubious biography? kwassa Nov 2013 #41
Various sources, some on the net other off the net happyslug Nov 2013 #42
What good? I see only bad. kwassa Nov 2013 #43
You should look for the good in people, for if you do you will find it. happyslug Nov 2013 #47
The worst a person has to offer often outweighs the good they may also do. LanternWaste Nov 2013 #62
Uh, excuse me, the subject was Nathan Bedford Forrest. kwassa Nov 2013 #63
what you wrote is bullshit. he only offered freedom to a few so that slavery could be preserved CreekDog Nov 2013 #67
good! gopiscrap Nov 2013 #16
One of you super smart history types help me with this... VPStoltz Nov 2013 #17
No. The Japanese flag is still the same: Aristus Nov 2013 #19
That image isn't banned....it's flown as an ensign on JSDF naval vessels. MADem Nov 2013 #31
Oh. I didn't know that. Aristus Nov 2013 #34
More.. yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #36
The Army (JGSDF) flag is a trip too....! A little more obvious modification than the JMSDF one! MADem Nov 2013 #38
Thats kinda cool.. yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #40
Those are "Ensigns" and flown at the rear of a Ship. The National Flag is flow in the highest Mast. happyslug Nov 2013 #50
Isn't that what I said? See my subject line. MADem Nov 2013 #59
Well we did lose the war with Vietnam and yet can still fly the Stars and Stripes, Great Britain Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #25
Actually Great Britain did change its Flag after it lost the War for American Independence happyslug Nov 2013 #48
Thanks for the correction but they didn't change the flag because they lost the war. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #49
I know, but it did change happyslug Nov 2013 #55
I was responding to a question regarding losing a war precipitating a change of flags. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #58
Germany's also just about the only case of a country undergoing debellatio in the last few centuries Posteritatis Nov 2013 #53
The Westphalian System was a bit of a farce and to my way of thinking is being eclipsed by Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #56
That situation as a whole's actually pretty rare Posteritatis Nov 2013 #51
Oh yeah Dj13Francis Nov 2013 #18
Good! VADem1980 Nov 2013 #21
K&R CFLDem Nov 2013 #22
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #23
excellent move by the school board ! nt steve2470 Nov 2013 #24
Oh, yeah. That man was a serious piggy. aquart Nov 2013 #29
Geography Lesson... Island Deac Nov 2013 #32
Good to hear ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2013 #33
Damn right--if they're gonna name that school after someone called Forrest, they'd be better off MADem Nov 2013 #39
General Forrest should not have any monument anywhere Jack Rabbit Nov 2013 #37
AMEN! rdharma Nov 2013 #52
Agreed 100%. Fuck the bastard. nt AverageJoe90 Nov 2013 #69
There's a school in WV named after an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #46
Wait, Scott Summers joined the Klan? AverageJoe90 Nov 2013 #68
Shelby Foote will be mortified to hear the news. arewenotdemo Nov 2013 #71
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