Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Latest Breaking News
In reply to the discussion: Man shoots, kills elderly man with Alzheimer’s at Walker County, Ga., home [View all]Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)50. Shoot first laws are inherently harmful
The idea that shoot first laws didn't play a role in Zimmerman's acquittal is a right wing talking point that has been debunked over and over and over. Here's just one reason why. These were the jury instructions given by the judge:
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
The reality is that the shoot first law protected Zimmerman in countless ways in every step of the process. It prevented the police from arresting him initially. It affected the DA's decision not to pursue a GJ indictment until the public outcry was overwhelming. It made the prosecution's case untenable, and ultimately it prevented Zimmerman from going to prison where he belongs. It's not as if Zimmerman is the only gun happy shitbag out there shooting people for no good reason, either. Shoot first laws are harmful, damn harmful even. The chances that Z will kill again are better than even. He is a living testament to the law of the instrument and nobody could take his guns away after the trial. With any luck his latest fuckup with accomplish that, but I'm not really optimistic.
The idea that police are arresting good guys with guns and DA's are trying to prosecute them is no better. Why on earth would these people do this if the end game is failure? Trying to poke holes in the duty to retreat with no demonstrable evidence of actual adverse impact is banal. Laws aren't perfect, that's why countless other protections are in place. Inventing solutions that had no problem with predictable negative consequences is idiocy.
TopBack to the top of the page
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
ShareGet links to this post
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
60 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Man shoots, kills elderly man with Alzheimer’s at Walker County, Ga., home [View all]
d_r
Nov 2013
OP
Can you drop that "only requires belief" meme? ALL SD laws "only require belief", even DTR ones.
sir pball
Nov 2013
#30
Not much different than any of the other demonstratably stupid shoot first laws
Major Nikon
Nov 2013
#35
Which law, GA or NY? Also, and this is a major separate discussion, Zimmy had nothing to do with SYG
sir pball
Nov 2013
#40
Sounds to me no "entry made/attempted," the gun fancier walked outside to "confront" sick man.
Hoyt
Nov 2013
#36
He went outside to confront the victim while his "fiancee" was on the phone with 911? Why wasn't ...
marble falls
Nov 2013
#12
why didn't he wait for the police, why did he feel important to go out and confront?
lostincalifornia
Nov 2013
#24
It's hard to come up with any situations that would justify the shooting of this man
penultimate
Nov 2013
#17
in addition, it wasn't just one shot but three shots the jerk did. Something is very wrong with
lostincalifornia
Nov 2013
#28
if I am reading the article correctly, this gunnut fired four shots--one of which struck the victim.
niyad
Nov 2013
#22
Walker County, Ga - whatayabet killer is a gun fancier with a few AR15s, along with his 40 caliber?
Hoyt
Nov 2013
#23
They'll probably make him grand marshall at the Turkey Day parade. nt
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Nov 2013
#31
Is Georgia another SYG state? The Republicans are pushing that law in Ohio now. I am
doc03
Nov 2013
#46
Up until this past year or two, I was OK with the 2nd amendment. Now...I'm wishing for a
BlueJazz
Nov 2013
#57