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mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)

47. As much as I hate to say this

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 02:16 AM

Nov 2013

He has a point about launching that big of an ass-load of solar panels into space and getting them to the moon. The costs using chemical rockets for this are about as far from insignificant as it can get. Now, there are possibly other technologies that could do it for far cheaper. Robert Forward was working on rotating tethers that would orbit the Earth pick things up at altitudes where atmospheric pressure was very low, and fling them to various destinations. Such a system, with another at the moon, could get things from here to there using no more energy than getting the things to the pickup point above (most of) the atmosphere. Unfortunately Dr. Forward died of cancer about 10 years ago.

I haven't read the article and it's kind of late to take something like that on, so I don't know how they plan on solving the transportation problem. Maybe they plan on manufacturing the solar panels on the moon? That would be non-trivial as well.

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Solar belt around the moon planned by Japanese engineers [View all] Judi Lynn Nov 2013 OP

Yeah, like beaming massive amounts of energy down on the earth, controlled by one nation, is a good MADem Nov 2013 #1

Um, that is not what Shimizu's plan is about Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #26

....they very clearly state (in Japanese) ... MADem Nov 2013 #33

Here you go Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #40

OK--it IS "dreams," proposals, concepts. There are no plans--this is just an idea barn. MADem Nov 2013 #43

The English version leaves out some things from the Japanese version Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #50

Art, this is a pipe dream. I don't see this happening in our lifetimes, or even in the lifetimes MADem Nov 2013 #51

"Fanfun" is referring to taking questions from fans of JAXA Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #59

If people want to amuse themselves with this, no harm. MADem Nov 2013 #60

I am all for green energy Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #63

I know they are working on solar roofs that aren't "panels"--the solar tech is embedded in the MADem Nov 2013 #64

Whoever masters this technology and uses it, that country will be the Saudi Arabia of the 21st cent. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #84

Well, we'd need to shift our world paradigm from confrontation to cooperation. MADem Nov 2013 #87

Dude/dudette...you can't fry anything, not with the tech that would be used. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #88

Hey, my microwave oven can be set to defrost, or it can pop corn. MADem Nov 2013 #89

I understand it would make a great James Bond film, but in real life; Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #92

People get fooled all the time. MADem Nov 2013 #94

Yep I know all about Glomar, very cool projet. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #95

Never mind a shroud of secrecy...you have to think like a screenwriter! MADem Nov 2013 #98

:) Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #111

A solar belt around the Moon? RC Nov 2013 #114

I agree, I have always thought geosynchronous orbital powersats are more realistic. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #116

Several experiments show Microwave transmission is quite feasible Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #150

"rather than ruining a huge chunk of the moon" EX500rider Nov 2013 #156

When they put the new Hilton Hotel up there, and people start playing Moon Polo up there, MADem Nov 2013 #157

We have "dreams" of our own, too! sofa king Nov 2013 #159

We'd be in the Stone Age with that kind forward thinking WowSeriously Nov 2013 #44

Simcity is not a documentary. (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2013 #70

Isn't that nice! nt MADem Nov 2013 #78

Sounds like a joke wercal Nov 2013 #2

Sounds like a future war. pnwest Nov 2013 #3

bingo demwing Nov 2013 #69

Not really MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #4

If its not a joke, its pure quackery wercal Nov 2013 #9

man will never fly! SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #14

Over the last 150 years, we have collectively paved 60k square miles of the US wercal Nov 2013 #21

Your objection is ridiculous. 1.8 million square miles? Orrex Nov 2013 #22

You should have told me earlier... wercal Nov 2013 #25

Goddamnit Orrex AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #38

Keyboard or monitor? Angleae Nov 2013 #56

Pants. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #58

It is quite serious Art_from_Ark Nov 2013 #15

They might really be 'researching' this, wercal Nov 2013 #20

I am sure scientist won't launch things into space MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #16

Being realistic isn't being a defeatist wercal Nov 2013 #18

Well MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #36

As much as I hate to say this mindwalker_i Nov 2013 #47

Non-trivial, but significantly less problematic than building them on earth. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #54

you would build them in orbit out of asteroid mined materials. Sirveri Nov 2013 #153

Amazing Americans made it to the moon with this defeatist attitude. WowSeriously Nov 2013 #45

You wouldn't build them on earth. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #53

Wait a minute... wercal Nov 2013 #73

Believe in it? AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #93

Trust me, its not technically feasible wercal Nov 2013 #106

Actually..... jeff47 Nov 2013 #119

Ok, I went a bridge too far with the crop dusting wercal Nov 2013 #128

I think the servicable lifespan of those panels might be a tad longer. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #131

An article about moon dust wercal Nov 2013 #133

I didn't look to see if there might be any filter-capable materials, but AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #135

I'm not sure you're comprehending the scale wercal Nov 2013 #154

Quite so. Laelth Nov 2013 #76

But setting up a web site... reACTIONary Nov 2013 #81

You've no idea what you're talking about. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #86

It would be a big deal, and the technology doesn't really exist yet muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #96

The hydrogen already bonded to moon soil solves the water problem. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #97

And the machinery to extract that hydrogen will have to be transported up there muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #104

Totally Incorrect. Three tonnes of rock are needed to produce each tonne of oxygen Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #109

We both said *hydrogen*, not oxygen muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #115

Sigh....Here Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #118

'sigh' - that's about carrying hydrogen to the moon, and then using it in a cycle muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #122

You can do that either way. Process rocks or do the ice. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #124

At least read the paper you linked to before you claim to know what it says muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #127

Your one to talk Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #130

Tiny amounts....Hmm I wonder what a ton of O2 broken down to H weighs.... Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #121

Unless you've become an alchemist, a ton of O2 broken down produces zero hydrogen muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #123

I was thinking of the ice, not O2 as I typed. As for your 2.3kw and Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #126

Thermoelectric reactors have been to the moon and beyond. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #134

Sending enough solar panels for a smelter is still quite a weight muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #143

The Irony is Strong With This One wercal Nov 2013 #99

Wow...I am certainly glad we have you to tell us all about this. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #101

Here's a link to where I explain how this is impossible wercal Nov 2013 #107

Oh I would never disagree with you. Your the obivous guru right? Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #110

Now hold on there partner wercal Nov 2013 #113

Sorry again refer to what i just said. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #120

So you can't back up your statement wercal Nov 2013 #125

See 120 Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #132

I'll take that as an admission you were wrong wercal Nov 2013 #137

You can pretend that, that fine. Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #139

Projection. Get help for that. wercal Nov 2013 #144

Projection, lol I wondered if that would be your response Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #145

Admission of the problem wercal Nov 2013 #146

Wow..just to funny! Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #147

Things will get better for you. wercal Nov 2013 #148

lol, gets popcorn Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #149

Take a day, re-read the thread wercal Nov 2013 #151

....Lol Katashi_itto Nov 2013 #152

Simon and Garfunkel wercal Nov 2013 #117

Actually, it is easy to set up a nuclear reactor on the moon. jeff47 Nov 2013 #103

No, they sent a radio-isotope powered vehicle muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #105

I've got a hunch that the Soviet reactors weren't quite big enough to power this scheme. wercal Nov 2013 #108

I had an astronomy professor/NASA consultant who had a similar plan DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #90

Run a search on "powersat" JHB Nov 2013 #41

has the donco Nov 2013 #5

$10,000 per pound to launch Earth-orbit materials NickB79 Nov 2013 #6

They will build a robotic run factory on the moon. itsrobert Nov 2013 #11

And then, they'll zap any city that doesn't bow to their demands!!! MADem Nov 2013 #37

How's your horse and buggy, fella? WowSeriously Nov 2013 #46

We'll see how soon they're "beaming it down, Scotty" from the doggone moon. MADem Nov 2013 #67

Does it bother you that other countries dare to dream? WowSeriously Nov 2013 #91

Potentially feasible given the chemical composition of the moon. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #48

Of course, nothing could possibly go wrong with such an exquisitely simple plan. WheelWalker Nov 2013 #7

This would be a monumental engineering job... Agnosticsherbet Nov 2013 #8

I hope that they go at night, when the moon is out Orrex Nov 2013 #10

Hopefully they do it during the full moon too! Lucky Luciano Nov 2013 #12

You fool! That's the worst time! Orrex Nov 2013 #13

Maybe they should... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2013 #19

Winner! wercal Nov 2013 #23

The only tricky part is... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2013 #24

I think the winter solstice gives them the most time wercal Nov 2013 #29

During June they could... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2013 #31

Well I guess the sun is alot hotter in June. wercal Nov 2013 #35

Not in the Southern hemisphere discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2013 #42

Finally, a voice of reason! Orrex Nov 2013 #27

I've been accused of many things... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2013 #32

!!!!! DeSwiss Nov 2013 #62

I think the best way would be defacto7 Nov 2013 #39

They should attach a really long rope to the moon mindwalker_i Nov 2013 #57

Wine? It sounds like something... reACTIONary Nov 2013 #82

teeeheee... I giggled. penultimate Nov 2013 #79

So who owns the surface of the moon? BlueStreak Nov 2013 #17

K&R. Sounds a lot better than fracturing all the shale and pumping toxic chemicals into the ground Overseas Nov 2013 #28

One question.... defacto7 Nov 2013 #30

Well, if you put it on the moon, it'll get eclipsed from time to time. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #49

Becasue they would make them from moon rock muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #68

Because the company... reACTIONary Nov 2013 #83

13,000 terawatts of microwaves beamed at our atmosphere? Yike. tinrobot Nov 2013 #34

We won't have to cook poultry any longer for Thanksgiving NickB79 Nov 2013 #65

They can't take care of Fukushima Politicalboi Nov 2013 #52

maybe that's why they are trying this JI7 Nov 2013 #61

The company in the article was responsible for Fukushima? Posteritatis Nov 2013 #71

If Fukushima continues to spew radioactivity upon the planet....... DeSwiss Nov 2013 #55

People really love their sci-fi, don't they? NickB79 Nov 2013 #66

That'd get the Middle East off the hook . . . ConcernedCanuk Nov 2013 #72

More Global Warming bucolic_frolic Nov 2013 #74

I very much hope this works. n/t Laelth Nov 2013 #75

Suppose this (or some other approach(es)) succeeded and we actually had unlimited energy MikeDuffy Nov 2013 #77

It would solve an awful lot of them muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #80

Thanks! We always need to be optimistic, but MikeDuffy Nov 2013 #100

Thanks for raising an important point. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #140

at first i laughed, but upon further review--wouldn't that be cool dembotoz Nov 2013 #85

Lets see. Meteors. Asteroids. Space debris. No. It's not likely a solar belt would be Lint Head Nov 2013 #102

And another "all Japanese people are Fukushima engineers" poster! Posteritatis Nov 2013 #129

Are you calling me a bigot or a racist? I am not referring to "all" Japanese people. Lint Head Nov 2013 #136

The concept is basically Dr. David Criswell's Lunar Solar Power proposal from the 1980s LongTomH Nov 2013 #112

If they use microwaves, wouldn't that heat the water vapour in the atmosphere? OnlinePoker Nov 2013 #138

Good question. Or create ozone? nt Ace Acme Nov 2013 #141

Use a frequency which isn't absorbed by the atmosphere bananas Nov 2013 #155

1,000 times the energy currently used? Incitatus Nov 2013 #142

Self promoting junk Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #158

They have overlooked one major cost factor: grantcart Dec 2013 #160