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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
83. The original was much skinnier. The earliest I saw looked Dutch, definitely Dutch.
Sun Dec 15, 2013, 07:46 PM
Dec 2013

Apparently the Saint Nikolaus was Orthodox. But that is not the tradition that my mother was raised in. With Saint Nikolaus came Krampus as I posted above. Krampus was a figure from German folklore and in the Dutch and Austrian, East European tradition, inextricably tied to St. Nikolaus. Krampus brought naughty children coals. That's where that part of our Santa Clause tradition comes from.

The Coca-Cola ads may have teen the source for the fat Santa Claus, but the Dutch tradition was much earlier.

And then there is the Christkind who visits German and Austrian children on Christmas Eve. Yet another fascinating custom.

The Christkind (German "Christ-child", pronounced [ˈkʁɪstkɪnt]) is the traditional Christmas gift-bringer in regions of Austria, the Czech Republic, Croatia, parts of Germany, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Portugal, Switzerland, Slovakia, Hungary, France, Upper-Silesia in Poland, parts of Hispanic America, in certain areas of southern Brazil and in the Acadiana region of Louisiana. In Italian, it is called Gesù Bambino, in Portuguese Menino Jesus ("Jesus Boy&quot , in Hungarian Jézuska ("Little Jesus&quot , in Slovak Ježiško ("Little Jesus&quot , in Czech Ježíšek ("Little Jesus&quot , in Latin America "Nino Dios" ("God Child&quot and in Croatian Isusić ("Little Jesus&quot .

Promulgated by Martin Luther, explicitly to discourage the figure of St. Nicholas, at the Protestant Reformation in 16th-17th-century Europe, many Protestants changed the gift bringer to the Christ Child or Christkindl, and the date of giving gifts changed from December 6 to Christmas Eve.[1] A gift-bringer familiar to children in Central Europe, the Christkind bears little resemblance to the infant of Bethlehem.[2] The Christkind was adopted in Catholic areas during the 19th century, while it began to be gradually replaced by a more or less secularized version of Saint Nicholas, the Weihnachtsmann (Father Christmas, Santa Claus) in Protestant regions.

The Christkind is a sprite-like child, usually depicted with blond hair and angelic wings. Martin Luther intended it to be a reference to the incarnation of Jesus as an infant. Sometimes the Christ Child is, instead of the infant Jesus, interpreted as a specific angel bringing the presents, as it appears in some processions together with an image of little Jesus Christ. It seems also to be rooted in the Alsatian-born myth of a child bringing gifts to the baby Jesus.[citation needed] Children never see the Christkind in person, and parents tell them that Christkind will not come and bring presents if they are curious and try to spot it. The family enters the living room, where the Christmas tree has been put up, for the opening of presents (the Bescherung) when the parents say that they think that the Christkind who has brought the presents has now left again. In some traditions, the departure is announced by the ringing of a small bell, which the parents pretend to have heard or which is secretly done by one of the adults in the family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christkind

Why were so many figures in the European customs white? Because ordinary Europeans mostly only knew white people. There weren't many people of other races amongst them. No point in getting upset about it. How many African folk tales or customs feature white people? It would be beyond the culture for that to happen. It isn't racism. It is just ignorance about the world that caused isolate people to create folk images that looked like themselves.

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They actually had a panel discussing Santa Claus. Kingofalldems Dec 2013 #1
Well, the rest of their agenda... paleotn Dec 2013 #11
Does anyone think that she believes Santa is OMG, real????? TNNurse Dec 2013 #44
Arguing over the appearance of fictional characters? cosmicone Dec 2013 #2
Homer is YELLOW MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #6
Murphy Brown is a bad example for women everywhere! Nanjing to Seoul Dec 2013 #17
"verifiable fact" Eugene Dec 2013 #3
Only War on Xmas, Santa are in Fox News Corp Lack of Brains, they just Make Shit Up call it News! mitty14u2 Dec 2013 #4
Maybe - but god is african american.... geckosfeet Dec 2013 #5
And female... pkdu Dec 2013 #7
And gay. Rozlee Dec 2013 #40
And tired of all this shit shebornik Dec 2013 #49
And walks with a limp. tblue Dec 2013 #50
God is Gallifreyan, a Time Lord, that is. tclambert Dec 2013 #72
I heard they were both the color of water. I learned they were chameleons, assuming the attributes… Journeyman Dec 2013 #8
Nuts is may be but its also more than 12 hours old. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #9
Jesus Christ! chuckstevens Dec 2013 #10
I got into real trouble druidqueen Dec 2013 #36
In defense of the idiot teeveenewslady... small D democrat Dec 2013 #48
Think again - did the blue eyed blonde genes come from the ME karynnj Dec 2013 #59
I considered that. small D democrat Dec 2013 #63
Washington Post has FAWNING article about her today Faygo Kid Dec 2013 #12
Everyone is poltical wilt the stilt Dec 2013 #31
of course being political is no guarantee you have a (functional) brain 0rganism Dec 2013 #66
Right, because he was from northern Europe, not the Middle East sakabatou Dec 2013 #13
And Jesus wore a Caterpillar cap Wolf Frankula Dec 2013 #15
Jesus drove a John Deere. danggumit!!! Thor_MN Dec 2013 #32
Oh, please. Jesus and Santa were both upper class British. merrily Dec 2013 #22
No, they're Wall St. tycoons. Rozlee Dec 2013 #41
The cat's outta the bag! Fox is run by pagans! Jesus is not Santa Claus! n/t freshwest Dec 2013 #14
Don't tell Megyn, but while Jesus was a white Semite, he was still a Jew Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #16
How do you know Jesus was white? merrily Dec 2013 #23
Because Semites are white Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #24
I've seen many Semites I would consider more "brown" than white. merrily Dec 2013 #25
Jesus was probably quite dark. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #34
Nicholas was Turkish KareBear Dec 2013 #37
The tradition of St. Nikolaus giving gifts to children on Dec. 6 was absolutely Dutch. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #42
The Orthodox would disagree. JohninPA Dec 2013 #58
Do you also have the Krampus tradition? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #62
Not to my knowledge JohninPA Dec 2013 #78
This interests me very much. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #80
Black Dutch Ancestry comes from the Old World. DhhD Dec 2013 #51
Yes. The Dutch traveled a lot. We are all one. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #70
The part of modern day Turkey where he was born was Greek then. merrily Dec 2013 #85
BBC has this depiction of Jesus big_dog Dec 2013 #68
Yes, this Nonhlanhla Dec 2013 #75
Thanks! JDPriestly Dec 2013 #76
The white-bearded fat guy in the red suit comes from Coke ads. Frank Cannon Dec 2013 #82
The original was much skinnier. The earliest I saw looked Dutch, definitely Dutch. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #83
You're absolutely right, of course. Frank Cannon Dec 2013 #84
I've heard many white supremacists say leftynyc Dec 2013 #38
That makes absolutely no sense Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #43
Of course it makes no sense leftynyc Dec 2013 #53
Rubbish shaayecanaan Dec 2013 #47
Jews /Canaanites went back and forth to Egypt over many years before and during the time of Christ. DhhD Dec 2013 #56
Clarification: Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #64
This reply is about white skin due to latitude of the Earth and its harmful radiation from the DhhD Dec 2013 #71
Jesus looked just like all the middle eastern Muslims that they are so afraid of. phleshdef Dec 2013 #26
Yep. Just like the Arabs they hate. merrily Dec 2013 #27
"The Real Face Of Jesus" handmade34 Dec 2013 #61
Guess she wouldn't like this Tom Waites song Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2013 #18
Skin like burnt brass & hair like wool lib87 Dec 2013 #19
I am very familiar with the wool bit, but not the skin like burnt brass bit. merrily Dec 2013 #21
Learn Something New Everyday! lib87 Dec 2013 #29
I don't want to lead you astray. merrily Dec 2013 #30
Yes, the Middle East was all white before the Red Menace. merrily Dec 2013 #20
Someone needs to tell ME-GYN to STHU.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2013 #28
Megyn Kelly-Time's Santa Claus Race Expert of the Year! Cha Dec 2013 #33
all this time I thought Akim was black santa.... big_dog Dec 2013 #69
in fact megyn rafeh1 Dec 2013 #35
Well, Megyn was not leftynyc Dec 2013 #39
So is Megan Kelly, but we're fighting for the cure. JackRiddler Dec 2013 #45
Well, aren't they? mathematic Dec 2013 #46
When I was growing up Tien1985 Dec 2013 #54
Juanita Jean had some fun with this story Gothmog Dec 2013 #52
Nonsense IDemo Dec 2013 #55
Love your reply Nonsense; black rye and blond wheat! DhhD Dec 2013 #79
What next? Shall we argue over the ethnicity of the tooth fairy? Cthulhu? Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #57
Imaginary? JohninPA Dec 2013 #60
According to Colbert, the Tooth Fairy is Latina Gothmog Dec 2013 #67
Let's argue over which sauce the Flying Spaghetti Monster has! csziggy Dec 2013 #74
even Santa is questionable paulkienitz Dec 2013 #65
Depraved, racist assholes n/t tabasco Dec 2013 #73
I heard she still farts on the air. Historic NY Dec 2013 #77
People like this make me tired. spiderpig Dec 2013 #81
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