Latest Breaking News

cprise

(8,445 posts)

48. I'm not sure that would be an asset to them

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:12 PM

Dec 2013

You are already having to trust Intel or AMD to a very great extent, and non-Vpro CPUs have large amounts of microcode and logic gates that can't be audited anyway.

IOW, you trust them not to be in cahoots with spies whether or not you have the remote provisioning capability.

Without a 3G link (and mind you, I ordered my Vpro-capable system without a WWAN/3G antenna) a CPU or other chip in the system could send encrypted data to an innocuous / non-existent Internet address and an organization like the NSA could easily intercept it. That is... IF the chips are compromised.

--

I have switched to using a hypervisor-based desktop OS called Qubes which employs advanced hardware features to provide strong system security. Its based on XEN and Linux and can run Windows too. The subject about hardware trust arises from time to time in Qubes discussions, and the consensus on the subject is pragmatic:

Since Qubes can isolate not just software but also hardware while in use, at least the number of companies/chips we have to trust are brought down to a bare minimum. You could get a Lenovo laptop with an Intel SSD, for instance, and only have to trust Lenovo + Intel (CPU, BIOS and hard drive).

A similar pragmatism gets people to use the HTTPS Everywhere browser addon these days. Even if the corporate world has made it possible for the NSA to spy on HTTPS links, it still takes a lot of effort on their part so using it is like throwing sand in the gears of mass surveillance.

BTW, I do think core hardware components probably *are* trustworthy... or else why would the NSA need to intercept devices to change them?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

107 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The NSA Has A Way To Intercept Computers Mid-Shipment And Install Spyware On Them [View all] Judi Lynn Dec 2013 OP

Glenn Greenwald Video Keynote To 30c3 12/27/2013 cantbeserious Dec 2013 #1

Hedges On the Security State cantbeserious Dec 2013 #2

k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #3

What do they do if you order it overnight? WhoWoodaKnew Dec 2013 #4

If you're important to them... caraher Dec 2013 #5

They'll send someone to your house in a plumber's outfit savalez Dec 2013 #7

Plumbers!?!?! DeSwiss Dec 2013 #11

Wouldn't it be most efficient to intercept shipments from the factories to the distribution points? Habibi Dec 2013 #24

No, because then you can't target certain people. RC Dec 2013 #25

So it's back to build your own hardware and write your own operating system. jakeXT Dec 2013 #6

Writing your own OS is probably unnecessary Prophet 451 Dec 2013 #10

And the hardware ? jakeXT Dec 2013 #12

Jesus! Prophet 451 Dec 2013 #17

come on, you are Jesus, you can do it. olddad56 Dec 2013 #22

Not Jesus, I'm just a humble prophet n/t Prophet 451 Dec 2013 #38

Maybe harvest older chips, from the mid-nineties or earlier, Ghost Dog Dec 2013 #83

I'm not sure that would be an asset to them cprise Dec 2013 #48

As long as..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #14

I don't think so. Open source... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #64

are you affiliated with a known terrorist group? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #27

It's very naive to think that the NSA only spies on known terrorists. Besides the Patriot Act rhett o rick Dec 2013 #34

Not naive enough to believe that the govt is putting spyware on your new laptop for christmas... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #35

You guys are so great with your strawmen. NO ONE THINKS THE NSA IS SPYING ON EVERYONE. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #43

Well some seem to think that the NSA is intercepting all computers and putting VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #44

No one thinks that. That is pure BS. But it's a waste of time trying to explain to those rhett o rick Dec 2013 #51

Read this thread and see if it isn't VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #53

How ridiculous. No one thinks they are intercepting all computers. That's called a strawman. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #62

Yes they do...read this thread. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #63

The same programs and personel as under Bush? reACTIONary Dec 2013 #66

I missed your point. Mine was that Obama has made no changes to the spying that was started under rhett o rick Dec 2013 #72

This no changes under Obama sounds like your opinion Progressive dog Dec 2013 #90

Well he appointed the Bush guys to continue working as heads of the spy agencies. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #91

That's sure proof that the law violations continue since Progressive dog Jan 2014 #105

So you are trying to tell me that hard line conservatives working for Bush are rhett o rick Jan 2014 #106

Do subordinates work for their boss? Progressive dog Jan 2014 #107

What would you guess is the ration of politically conservative right-wing people to politically JDPriestly Dec 2013 #70

Are you suggesting that with every new administration we just fire everyone working for the govt? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #96

NSA is responsible for all signals intellegence... reACTIONary Dec 2013 #65

Thanks to the administration's insane definition of terrorism, at least a few posters on DU are. LeftyMom Dec 2013 #78

Wait - Angela Merkel is affiliated with known "terrorist" group? Maedhros Dec 2013 #79

"a known terrorist group." Like the NSA or the CIA? olddad56 Dec 2013 #95

Are you a member? Because that is the question I asked... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #97

and people think Snowden is a traitor. Wow olddad56 Dec 2013 #8

he is....we don't have to think it to make it so... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #28

If you back the NSA, you are a traitor to your country. olddad56 Dec 2013 #71

why is opposing what Snowden did...supporting the NSA? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #85

Thank You for Making the Case so Honestly. "We (YOU) don't have to THINK 2banon Dec 2013 #77

The law IS the law....he broke it. He IS guilty of the crimes... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #86

Odd... rexcat Dec 2013 #92

Not convicted but what we are discussing that he did IS against the law right? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #93

Except you stated... rexcat Dec 2013 #99

well he HAS admitted it has he not? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #100

You missed my original point and are obfuscating... rexcat Dec 2013 #102

No if he admitted the crime.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #103

Having a congent discussion... rexcat Jan 2014 #104

You won't get to choose the charges he faces will you? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #101

"The law is the law" 2banon Dec 2013 #94

But they only do it for our own good. DeSwiss Dec 2013 #9

"Power is not a means; it is an end." Psephos Dec 2013 #13

The greatest... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #80

Of course the NSA apologists here will claim that it's only meta-data which we all know is rhett o rick Dec 2013 #15

I don't think you know what metadata is...it has nothing to do with malware being placed VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #36

Of course you think that only you know. The NSA apologists continue to deny there is a rhett o rick Dec 2013 #39

No but I do know what Metadata is.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #40

You missed the point all together. It's the idiot NSA apologists that continue rhett o rick Dec 2013 #45

Please direct me to posts that say VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #41

So you tell me that you think the NSA needs to be under tighter controls. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #47

I do...but it has nothing to do with opposing Snowden does it? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #52

You should be worried about your government's policies. Ash_F Dec 2013 #69

How does one "object" to Snowden? Do you object to all whistle-blowers? Why? rhett o rick Dec 2013 #74

i honestly don't understand giving the gov't the benefit of the doubt pothos Dec 2013 #75

Some need desperately to believe in their authoritarian leaders. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #76

Here's what happens when you or I commit the crime of tampering with the US mail... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #16

Solution: walk into a brick and mortar store and buy it off the shelf thesquanderer Dec 2013 #18

Solution -- get the NSA to obey the law! Period. n/t Indi Guy Dec 2013 #20

Solution -- BOTH! Also this...... cprise Dec 2013 #57

Better solution: jeff47 Dec 2013 #68

I am a big Apple fan... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #82

That's some scary shit. loudsue Dec 2013 #19

But boxes in his garage!!!1! And its "only" metadata!!1 And will no-one think of his poor "fiance"! riderinthestorm Dec 2013 #21

they're traitors!! pothos Dec 2013 #23

when did anyone including those that oppose what snowden and greenwald have done VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #33

Why do you hate America? Newsjock Dec 2013 #26

I cannot believe smart people actually think this is happening to them! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #29

Then again, who would believe every email and telephone call can be monitored at will? merrily Dec 2013 #31

they are not.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #32

What does "they are not" refer to? merrily Dec 2013 #37

like what? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #42

I thought--or hoped-- the bill of rights applied to government. merrily Dec 2013 #46

the Internet was never private.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #49

I already responded to your internet point, as best I understand it. merrily Dec 2013 #56

Having the ability is not the same as having proof that it HAS happened. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #58

I already responded to that point, too. merrily Dec 2013 #59

You have to have specific proof that it has in order to prove its doing it. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #60

P.S. It's not "only" the internet, as if that were not bad enough. merrily Dec 2013 #50

P.S. this is about putting malware on computers... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #54

By the way...you understand it wasn't Google that invented the Internet right? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #61

No one is thinking it's happening to them. Stop the strawmen. The point is that the NSA has the rhett o rick Dec 2013 #73

Not long after 911, Bin Laden claimed he'd won. merrily Dec 2013 #30

Once this filters into the computer world..... blackspade Dec 2013 #55

Americans are the terr'ists, now. Thanks, 9/11. blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #67

"Unable to connect to NSA servers. Contact your network administrator." ifyousayso Dec 2013 #81

Really powerful interview polynomial Dec 2013 #84

kick. n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #87

This is the new America, why don't they just email the malware to us and order us to install it? ... olddad56 Dec 2013 #88

Perhaps it is time to change the name from America to Acirema .... olddad56 Dec 2013 #89

I say bullshit!!! hexola Dec 2013 #98