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In reply to the discussion: Edward Snowden completely abandoned girlfriend, says her father [View all]Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)138. No he didn't. "On Secrecy, Oaths, and Edward Snowden"
https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2014/01/secrecy-oaths-and-edward-snowden
January 8, 2014
By Daniel Ellsberg
These two pieces, the first by Marcy Wheeler, in part commenting on the second by Amy Davidson in the New Yorker (along with Snowden himself, in his interview with Bart Gellman) are the first I've seen making a point I've been making for years: contrary to the frequent assertions in the last week (including by Fred Kaplan) that Snowden is particularly reprehensible because he "broke his OATH of secrecy," neither Snowden nor anyone else broke such a secrecy "oath."
Such an oath doesn't exist (look up "oath" on the web). Rather heand Ibroke an agreement (known as Standard Form 312) which was a condition of employment. It provides for civil or administrative penalties (e.g., losing a clearance or a job) for disclosing classified information: serious enough to keep nearly everyone quiet about...anything classified, no matter how illegal or dangerous.
The reason this matters is that Snowden, as he said to Gellman and as I've repeatedly said, did take a real "oath," just one oath, the same oath that every official in the government and every Congressperson takes as an oath of office. He and they "swore" ("or affirmed"
"to support and defend the Constitution of the U.S., against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
They did not swear to support and defend or obey the President, or to keep secrets. But to support and defend, among other elements of the Constitution, the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments in the Bill of Rights, and Article I, section 8, on war powers. That's the oath that, as Snowden correctly said to Gellman, he upheld (as I would say I eventually did) and that Clapper and Alexander broke (along with most members of Congress).
As Snowden and I discovered, that oath turns out to be often in conflict with the secrecy agreements that he and I signed, and which we later chose to violate in support of our oath.
January 8, 2014
By Daniel Ellsberg
These two pieces, the first by Marcy Wheeler, in part commenting on the second by Amy Davidson in the New Yorker (along with Snowden himself, in his interview with Bart Gellman) are the first I've seen making a point I've been making for years: contrary to the frequent assertions in the last week (including by Fred Kaplan) that Snowden is particularly reprehensible because he "broke his OATH of secrecy," neither Snowden nor anyone else broke such a secrecy "oath."
Such an oath doesn't exist (look up "oath" on the web). Rather heand Ibroke an agreement (known as Standard Form 312) which was a condition of employment. It provides for civil or administrative penalties (e.g., losing a clearance or a job) for disclosing classified information: serious enough to keep nearly everyone quiet about...anything classified, no matter how illegal or dangerous.
The reason this matters is that Snowden, as he said to Gellman and as I've repeatedly said, did take a real "oath," just one oath, the same oath that every official in the government and every Congressperson takes as an oath of office. He and they "swore" ("or affirmed"
They did not swear to support and defend or obey the President, or to keep secrets. But to support and defend, among other elements of the Constitution, the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments in the Bill of Rights, and Article I, section 8, on war powers. That's the oath that, as Snowden correctly said to Gellman, he upheld (as I would say I eventually did) and that Clapper and Alexander broke (along with most members of Congress).
As Snowden and I discovered, that oath turns out to be often in conflict with the secrecy agreements that he and I signed, and which we later chose to violate in support of our oath.
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She needs to write a book. She's got plenty of pictures, she might as well make some money. nt
MADem
Jan 2014
#1
If she had done this would we be reading "He's been "abandoned by his girlfriend?"
SharonAnn
Jan 2014
#141
Again, with the 'stripper' slur. She's a graduate of a prestigious art college in MD who enjoys
MADem
Jan 2014
#143
Giving up a secure and comfortable life to expose wrong doing takes tremendous character
Matariki
Jan 2014
#52
Enough of this Snowden character. Don't we have any beach pix of the POTUS
R. Daneel Olivaw
Jan 2014
#7
Well, good for you! You do realize that your attitudes are unique to yourself, and don't
MADem
Jan 2014
#140
"she was in the back of her mind planning marriage and a life together" hahahaha!!
Luminous Animal
Jan 2014
#146
They'd lived together for quite some time. She spoke of tranquil domestic moments on her blog.
MADem
Jan 2014
#152
I'm not up in arms. Simply pointing out that all the effort Snowden went to wasn't worth it.
randome
Jan 2014
#148
Absolutely. I was familiar with pretty much everything Snowden claimed. Laura Poitro's first two
okaawhatever
Jan 2014
#162
I keep expecting to hear he is wed to a Russian lady -- for residency and all.
oldandhappy
Jan 2014
#29
I was wondering when you would chime in here, on the pro-surveillance side, Treestar.
Th1onein
Jan 2014
#131
Is it authoritarian to expect people to follow the law? WHICH people are you talking about?
Th1onein
Jan 2014
#171
Didn't he steal away in the night leaving behind the boxes in the garage....
Historic NY
Jan 2014
#39
Fathers of ex girlfriends seldom have nice things to say. Snowden had bigger things to worry about
JVS
Jan 2014
#57
He probably stuck her with the rent. That sucks, but hopefully, she'll pick better
msanthrope
Jan 2014
#76
This doesn't change the fact that the government has an unconstitutional spying program.
Shoulders of Giants
Jan 2014
#83
And yours is a valid opinion. I don't so much as support the NSA as think they are irrelevant to me.
randome
Jan 2014
#120
Mayeb he stole the NSA secrets and fled the country as an excuse to leave his relationship.
olddad56
Jan 2014
#95
He abandoned his country? He did the people of this country a great service by blowing the whistle.
olddad56
Jan 2014
#115
More Deflection - More Character Assassination - Focus On The Loss Of Privacy And The 4th Amendment
cantbeserious
Jan 2014
#129
and he boxes in his garage too - now that we know this - at least we don't half to worry about the
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2014
#142
A traitor that abandons his country would feel no guilt at abandoning his girlfriend.
4bucksagallon
Jan 2014
#167
Also I'm pretty sure he never put the cap back on the toothpaste........
Theyletmeeatcake2
Jan 2014
#184