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msanthrope

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50. Well...and there is the rub....Manning's stealing the directory of military

Reply to Maedhros (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:59 PM

Jan 2014

cyber addresses in Iraq was of benefit to precisely, whom???

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Russia: Snowden can stay [View all] George II Jan 2014 OP

Snowden is a gain for the U.S. former9thward Jan 2014 #1

Our loss, their gain. RC Jan 2014 #2

Evidently not Demeter Jan 2014 #5

It's possible to see Snowden as a traitor and yet still decry Section 215. Snowden hero worship msanthrope Jan 2014 #14

Actually no. Seeing Snowden as as a traitor is supporting the NSA and pro Section 215. RC Jan 2014 #15

Actually, I can have any way I want. And Snowden hasn't told us anything anybody paying attention msanthrope Jan 2014 #17

No, he left because he saw what our government did to Manning. RC Jan 2014 #20

Right...Manning is a criminal. The way to not be a criminal is to follow msanthrope Jan 2014 #21

Slavish devotion to the law, even when defying it is of benefit to the people, Maedhros Jan 2014 #48

Well...and there is the rub....Manning's stealing the directory of military msanthrope Jan 2014 #50

This thread is about Snowden, not Manning. [n/t] Maedhros Jan 2014 #54

And your advice is for people to break the law which is your moral position, right? Demenace Jan 2014 #59

One must weight the respective benefit to the people Maedhros Jan 2014 #69

so if you think more people will benefit from breaking a law then obeying it then you will break it? Bodhi BloodWave Jan 2014 #76

What we're discussing is a classic whistleblower situation. Maedhros Jan 2014 #93

One can focus on both though no? Bodhi BloodWave Jan 2014 #95

As I said, focusing on Snowdnen's alleged crimes gives cover to those trying to obscure Maedhros Jan 2014 #109

and as i said Bodhi BloodWave Jan 2014 #167

and disregard for the law is anarchy VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #78

You're right. Rosa Parks should NOT have sat in the front of that bus. Maedhros Jan 2014 #108

Okay then...screw the law....Chaos for everybody! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #115

Rosa Parks broke the law in an attempt to end the injustice of segregation. Maedhros Jan 2014 #116

No Rosa Parks didn't set out to become an icon... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #117

What about Jo Ann Gibson Robinson? Maedhros Jan 2014 #118

So? She also had the courage of her convictions...she didn't run in the face of the law... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #119

But she broke the law, in an effort to end an injustice. Maedhros Jan 2014 #120

she didn't run away....lather rinse repeat... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #121

None of those things are relevant to the fundamental premise. Maedhros Jan 2014 #122

+100000 nt riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #124

No I am focusing on who has the courage and who doesn't.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #129

Again, the "courage" of the messenger is both subjective and irrelevant. Maedhros Jan 2014 #138

some people bar for courage is set mighty low... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #139

Some people's bar for logic is set even lower... [n/t] Maedhros Jan 2014 #141

Our military go risk their lives every day....that takes courage... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #142

Civil rights activists were snooped on by the government Ash_F Jan 2014 #146

If Snowden "hasn't told us anything anybody paying attention didn't already know was going on," JDPriestly Jan 2014 #45

Simple...because he stole and ran. These are crimes. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #46

And the NSA stole our information and concealed their theft. Also a crime. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #52

How do you steal something everyone already knew? Ash_F Jan 2014 #60

When you steal other honest individuals passwords to obtain something... Demenace Jan 2014 #63

he stole classified operations documents and gave them to foreign msanthrope Jan 2014 #65

Uh ask copyright lawyers... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #79

My friend, it is better for his followers not to acknowledge their dishonesty... Demenace Jan 2014 #62

Here. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #68

"It is not illegal to disclose government conduct that is illegal." George II Jan 2014 #98

Have you ever pointed out to your boss that something going on in his company was illegal? JDPriestly Jan 2014 #106

Yes I did, and no I wasn't. George II Jan 2014 #107

I did and I was. /nt Ash_F Jan 2014 #114

Even though you admit that they already knew. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #123

As I said, before Snowden they already knew, but they didn't know how... George II Jan 2014 #125

You can't have it anyway you want and be making sense too. Ash_F Jan 2014 #61

Exactly (thanx for posting) Titonwan Jan 2014 #36

Then you believe there is only one right track on this issue and that track is yours, right? Demenace Jan 2014 #58

Project much? RC Jan 2014 #64

no grey area in your world huh? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #77

Usually yes, but not in this case. RC Jan 2014 #130

Snowden ran like a scalded dog.. VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #135

So he should have stuck around and be treated like they did Manning? RC Jan 2014 #147

But what about Snowden divulging intricacies of our international . . . brush Jan 2014 #127

Snowden's said he wants a global discussion of illegal surveillance. That includes 5 eyes partners riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #128

Don't understand what you're saying with your post brush Jan 2014 #134

Nope. I think he wants a convo about allies spying on other allies for economic imperialism riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #137

Naivete brush Jan 2014 #143

Then you are exposed supporting some pretty despicable US shit riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #150

You are right, we have been bad actors as well brush Jan 2014 #154

The NSA has admitted they haven't stopped any attacks. So what are they REALLY for? riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #155

The NSA is also in violation of international law. RC Jan 2014 #133

So all countries should stop spying on each other? brush Jan 2014 #136

And the United States isn't one of the worse bad actors out there? RC Jan 2014 #148

You're right about that brush Jan 2014 #149

9/11 happened because the bu$h administration ignored all the warnings from other countries. RC Jan 2014 #153

I've said all alone, and in the post you responded to that . . . brush Jan 2014 #158

We know the NSA hasn't stopped any attacks. Alexander himself has said it. riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #159

The domestic stuff should be stopped. nt brush Jan 2014 #160

So no comment about Alexander's confession that the NSA isn't fighting terrorism? riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #161

Not up on that. Do you have a link? brush Jan 2014 #162

In post #159 nt riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #163

Thanks for the link brush Jan 2014 #164

Alexander lied that the NSA had stopped terror attacks. In the US or outside riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #165

Just going by the link you sent me brush Jan 2014 #166

Will eliminating "Section 215" stop Brazil from spying on us, or......... George II Jan 2014 #23

Brazil was "spying on us" in their own country. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #38

You are certainly naive if you think all countries are not spying on each other at every VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #80

I can't imagine how that would be relevant. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #87

So we should just shut ours down even though every single other one continues? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #88

Don't expect me to defend your simplistic straw man argument. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #90

but this was a sub discussion of that... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #91

This thread is weird. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #92

okay.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #105

It is normal for countries to spy on other countries, especially on foreign national activity within JDPriestly Jan 2014 #49

I thought you said on another thread on the Australian reaction to Snowden... Demenace Jan 2014 #57

What I said: JDPriestly Jan 2014 #66

Didn't anyone read my SECOND sentence above? George II Jan 2014 #53

There is also very considerable ground between regarding Snowden as either a "hero" or a "traitor" markpkessinger Jan 2014 #126

OMG really? treestar Jan 2014 #71

How did you get that from what I said? RC Jan 2014 #72

Maybe. It was the post ending with how he should be welcomed as hero. nt treestar Jan 2014 #102

Snowden is a Patriot. RC Jan 2014 #104

I agree with you - TBF Jan 2014 #96

This is great news! Titonwan Jan 2014 #3

One guy in the Duma has said this..let's not get too excited. nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #12

Duma? n/t Titonwan Jan 2014 #35

Really? nt msanthrope Jan 2014 #47

Apparently he didn't just "say" it. ronnie624 Jan 2014 #75

Four more years and Eddie can become a citizen! He's no Depardieu, so I assume they will MADem Jan 2014 #4

Imagine not being able to drink...in Russia. It's winter from now ' til June.... msanthrope Jan 2014 #11

I see negotiations over Snowden have begun. bemildred Jan 2014 #6

But, your last line should read... George II Jan 2014 #7

I you think that's better, go for it. nt bemildred Jan 2014 #8

Denied extensively, carla Jan 2014 #30

"Denied" by whom? Comrade Eddie? His KGB lawyer? GG? Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #33

Evidence that debriefing is going on? JDPriestly Jan 2014 #51

!!! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #32

Argument by cartoons... Psephos Jan 2014 #42

Good news, Comrade Eddie! SoapBox Jan 2014 #9

WOLVERINES!!1 frylock Jan 2014 #24

... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #27

Thank you for that. Seeing a Red Dawn reference in conjunction with this poster made it click. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2014 #67

that poster is a chronic red baiter and too cowardly to address replies to their bullshit.. frylock Jan 2014 #70

particularly for those of the Libertarian vein... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #81

This is one of the most republican sounding posts to which I've been exposed. Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #151

in this day and age, US, Russia, what is the diference. olddad56 Jan 2014 #10

If you don't know the difference, that's sad George II Jan 2014 #25

If you don't think that the difference is shrinking as fast as the artic ice is melting, that is sad olddad56 Jan 2014 #40

Digby's take Titonwan Jan 2014 #44

Yeah, it is.. Cha Jan 2014 #85

Snowden has played us all. FarPoint Jan 2014 #13

well, you know what they say about opinions and assholes.. frylock Jan 2014 #22

So...you are calling me an asshole essentially. FarPoint Jan 2014 #39

Touche! He's calling himself one, too.. Cha Jan 2014 #86

YAY! And good riddance. Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #16

That cartoon is hilariously accurate! nt MADem Jan 2014 #18

If he thinks he was "monitored" in the US, he ain't seen nothing yet. Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #19

They probably weigh/analyze his stool with every flush! nt MADem Jan 2014 #28

Remember the outrage when (*) said "he looked into Pooty Poot's eyes" and fell under his spell or... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #31

He saw his SOUL...he said!!!! MADem Jan 2014 #37

Ugh. Now I remember. Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #43

Interesting article about other American defectors to Russia (USSR) George II Jan 2014 #26

"Others were sent to Josef Stalin's gulags, where they served long sentences or were executed" Tarheel_Dem Jan 2014 #29

Honestly? I think he got TOTALLY LUCKY. MADem Jan 2014 #41

Wow...very good analysis... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #82

+10000000000 treestar Jan 2014 #101

"You vant my Snowden? Nyet!" randome Jan 2014 #34

You know Russia thinks they are all great because they are taking in Eric Snowden... LynneSin Jan 2014 #55

If Snowden had come out prior to 2009, he would have been universally hailed a hero on this site. kiawah Jan 2014 #56

Baloney treestar Jan 2014 #73

How NSA Spies Abused Their Powers to Snoop on Girlfriends, Lovers, and First Dates Ash_F Jan 2014 #74

And you know what happened when the NSA discovered this? randome Jan 2014 #99

Will they get the 35 years Manning did? /nt Ash_F Jan 2014 #111

You realize Manning wasn't NSA and wasn't a civilian, right? stevenleser Jan 2014 #131

No you are right. Zero jail time was definitely appropriate. /nt Ash_F Jan 2014 #144

How does that statement fix your error regarding the facts? nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #145

There will always be exceptions treestar Jan 2014 #100

I await that elusive exception where their snooping has stopped a bomber. /nt Ash_F Jan 2014 #110

The medical examiner's office doesn't prevent murders either. Should we close them all up? nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #132

Not that simple treestar Jan 2014 #152

Oh the NSA are just like doctors now? Ash_F Jan 2014 #157

Also didn't take much for congress to immediately withdraw funding from ACORN. Ash_F Jan 2014 #112

Snowie was on the GWB team...remember??? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #84

Problem for you is...Snowden played for the other team! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #89

Snowden loves Putin.. glad it's Cha Jan 2014 #83

So if he decided to stay permanently in Russia nilesobek Jan 2014 #94

It was pretty much expected they'd do that davidpdx Jan 2014 #97

Pretty soon Eddie is going to have to get a job in Russia.. Historic NY Jan 2014 #103

Everything is fine then. dipsydoodle Jan 2014 #113

Snowden is a hero Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #140

What makes this guy think he is so terribly important to the US Tippy Jan 2014 #156