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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
25. Under the law, that is sufficient
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 04:48 PM
Mar 2012

In most states, a 11 year old can be on her own, i.e. does NOT require a babysitter OR be in daycare, and can watch a five year old. This is the WELFARE rule in almost every state for the STATE does NOT want to pay for Daycare unless the STATE has to. You can dislike this rule, but it is the rule in every state that I know of.

Now Children and Youth dislikes the above rule, but like the rule of Corporate punishment (another rule Children and Youth dislikes) it is LEGAL unless Children and youth can show ACTUAL NEGLECT.

One of the problems with Children and yYuth hearings being closed to the Public, a lot of people do NOT understand HOW the law is applied to situations like this. Public Welfare main purpose is NOT to protect Children but to keep the cost of such protection to a Minimum, thus these children are in a household that makes to much money for Welfare payments (Through they may be on the CHIP program), thus a huge deference to parents when it comes to raising their children. Unless there is clear evidence of neglect, and getting a bath twice a week, wearing "dirty" clothes etc is NOT neglect. Even leaving the children out in the "Winter" without shoes may NOT be neglect (This is Texas, which is in a drought. thus temperatures all winter has been WELL above freezing).

I use to handle Children and Youth Cases, and I have NOT read anything that shows true neglect. The bus HAD air Conditioning, it had electricity, it had water, it had heat. All of that shows a LACK of neglect. Is is an optimum housing situation?, NO, but I also do NOT think it meets the legal definition of Neglect. If you would have over heard some actual Children and Youth Cases you would know that, but such cases are closed to the Public thus most people do NOT hear of them.

One more thing to think about, the eldest child was age 11, Texas is state the recognize Common Law Marriages, in the late 1990s, Pennsylvania (Which at that time also recognized common law marriages) ruled that a Child at age 12 could enter into a valid common law marriage. Thus when a Teacher had sex with his 12 year old female student, the fact that both of them said they had exchanged vows made it a valid common law marriage even if the 12 year old's parents did NOT agree to it. Since it was a Valid Common Law Marriage, the sex was legal between the Teacher and the 12 year old.

At least one Colorado Court has taken notice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court Decision in that case, and pointed out that Colorado had the same Common Law Marriage rules as Pennsylvania and thus such a marriage would be valid in Colorado. I have NOT read of any comment from the Texas Court System, but Texas is another Common Law Marriage state, and as such the 11 year old could be within a year of being able to enter into a valid Common Law Marriage (This is dependent on how Texas wrote its law on marriage, if 18 is the cut off on all marriages, OR the cut off on Ceremonial marriages only, that was the situation in Pennsylvania and apparently Colorado).

Please note, Common Law Marriages are VALID marriages in those states that recognize them. There is no such thing as a Common Law Divorce, if a couple is married under the common law they must use the regular divorce law to get a divorce.

Just a comment, that a lot of people do NOT understand the law regarding minors, and that they vary based on the State the minor is in AND the age of the minor.

One more comment, emancipation of Minors. Many states have adopted statures of when and how a minor could be emancipated from his or her parents. many states have not, Pennsylvania is one of those states that have NOT, thus it is possible for this 11 year old to be an emancipated minor, a minor no longer under the Care, Control or Supervision of his or her parents do to the act of his or her parents. The fact that the child's parents are in Jail, can be a "Judaical" act of the parent that they are no longer doing "care, Control or Supervision" of that child. There is NO bottom age for such emancipation. but a Child must go to school in Pennsylvania till he or she is 17 years of age (But an emancipated Minor can do that, i.e. go to school) and the Common Law rule of children below age 7 are presumed to be incompetent to enter contracts comes into play. Age 14 is the age where the law presumes a child is competent as an adult (Between age 7 and 14 it is on a case to case basis, but in Merry old England in the 1600s they did hanged a 7 year old boy for a crime subject to the punishment of hanging, when the court ruled he was competent as a 14 year old).

Do I dislike these laws? Yes, but I also have to deal with them. Now the US Supreme Court has ruled we can no longer execute people below age 18, but the Court has NEVER ruled on the issue of when a child can NOT be emancipated. Now, the State have passed laws saying it has jurisdiction over Children below age 18, but that includes not only emancipation minors but emancipated minors. Such Jurisdiction applies only if the child is "endangered" i.e. if the emancipated minor is NOT "endangered" then State has no jurisdiction over him or her.

Yes, Juvenal law has its logic, but it has been more on what works then anything else, and that in olden days teenagers were part of the work force (For example during the Great Depression Unemployment numbers was for people over age 14, it was NOT changed to the present over 17 level to 1947). Given that they is no one to lobby the state legislature to change the law, it is NOT changed unless something hits the headlines (The above case involving a 12 year getting married was one of the grounds for Pennsylvania abolishing people from entering into Common Law Marriages after 1/1/2005. Thus the law is a mess, but it is something I have worked with and have a decent understanding of.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Seems to me the neighbors knew of these children. Why in bill blue blazes didn't snappyturtle Mar 2012 #1
The neighbors might not have known these kids were on their own. Lasher Mar 2012 #2
yes - why didn't they try to contact the parents Skittles Mar 2012 #4
Splendora, TX arely staircase Mar 2012 #43
same reason why cars fled an accident scene I went to recently - "did not want to get involved" wordpix Mar 2012 #56
Hope they find a good abelenkpe Mar 2012 #3
My first thought as well. PotatoChip Mar 2012 #7
I'm with everyone else - if you see children looking dirty and unkempt and no shoes even in winter Smilo Mar 2012 #5
Remember we are talking of Texas, they is NO local Government outside of Cities happyslug Mar 2012 #19
Thank you. Delphinus Mar 2012 #53
No, you didn't. Speaker Mar 2012 #54
I did NOT say that, I pointed out no LOCAL Government happyslug Mar 2012 #58
There is a child abuse hot line in all 50 states. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #64
So what? How do you find out about it if you do NOT know about it. happyslug Mar 2012 #66
Google it proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #67
How can a person who has no Computer "google it"???? happyslug Mar 2012 #70
that will come a quite a surprise to my county commissioners' court, county judge, county sheriff, arely staircase Mar 2012 #60
A FEDERAL Government Employee happyslug Mar 2012 #61
well, i would consider the county gov. to be local, but even within arely staircase Mar 2012 #62
Not just Texas. That's the case in most of the west. Xithras Mar 2012 #68
11 and FIVE? xxqqqzme Mar 2012 #6
So there was no adult caring for them? That's what it sounds like. Quantess Mar 2012 #8
There was a Adult, but she was working 12 hour shifts happyslug Mar 2012 #10
Oh, now I see it. Quantess Mar 2012 #13
The Children were with an ADULT happyslug Mar 2012 #9
What are you talking about? LisaL Mar 2012 #20
Under the law, that is sufficient happyslug Mar 2012 #25
Under what law its sufficient? LisaL Mar 2012 #26
You should check your state's Welfare Regulations happyslug Mar 2012 #59
Even though some can't comprehend what you are saying, it is great that you are DeschutesRiver Mar 2012 #72
Thank you for taking the time to say this Horse with no Name Mar 2012 #37
I remember the CHIP program and then Governor Bush of Texas happyslug Mar 2012 #39
the kids are experiencing gross neglect, thats grounds for foster care firehorse Mar 2012 #24
Have you done Children and Youth work? I have, and nothing in the article shows gross neglect. happyslug Mar 2012 #47
did you look at the bus? filthy, no water, lacking food, trash everywhere... firehorse Mar 2012 #48
Maybe we should just criminalize poverty JAbuchan08 Mar 2012 #49
This wasn't a personal opinon of Happyslug - it was the law's position. nt DeschutesRiver Mar 2012 #71
Sad, but True. Throckmorton Mar 2012 #52
Eyes Open flamingdem Mar 2012 #11
This is how many children live in the U.S.A. hunter Mar 2012 #14
You are so correct! southerncrone Mar 2012 #29
I do not think you've seen much of the third world flamingdem Mar 2012 #33
We're not "third world" hunter Mar 2012 #35
What's crippling the US is privately-funded elections. Selatius Mar 2012 #51
Amen brotha. eom xtraxritical Mar 2012 #38
+10000 wordpix Mar 2012 #57
So did these children fall through the cracks in the social net? bayareaboy Mar 2012 #12
But Mitt Romney's not concerned about that. Arugula Latte Mar 2012 #17
Here's a video link: Quantess Mar 2012 #15
Great Aunt? Where are the kids parents, aunts, and uncles? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #16
Parents are apparently in prison. LisaL Mar 2012 #18
Both of them? Do you have a link to the info? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #21
The info is in the OP. LisaL Mar 2012 #22
Their parents are believed to be in prison for embezzling money from Hurricane Ike victims in 2008. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #23
If the parents are in prison, didn't the state assign a guardian for the kids southerncrone Mar 2012 #30
Excellent question. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #32
I imagine the parents didn't want children to go to foster care so they probably LisaL Mar 2012 #42
Children in our society today are disposable. southerncrone Mar 2012 #27
I suspect that there never were any kids. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #28
Who is making things up? southerncrone Mar 2012 #31
Or, as we call it in Texas........ DFW Mar 2012 #34
US Postal Workers... Galraedia Mar 2012 #36
Wow, this sounds like a real-life version of "The Boxcar Children" Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #40
I thought the same thing, I loved those books when I was a kid in ther 90s. Odin2005 Mar 2012 #44
First thing I thought of, but without the older sibblings. joshcryer Mar 2012 #50
those poor children blondie58 Mar 2012 #41
!!!!!!!!!!!! Odin2005 Mar 2012 #45
Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team) asfghjkyu Mar 2012 #46
Talk about a failed system we have one madokie Mar 2012 #55
we are a third world country. CTyankee Mar 2012 #63
I read this a couple of days ago, and realized that the parents were most likely in prison... midnight Mar 2012 #65
They are in prison and it has been known from the beginning. LisaL Mar 2012 #69
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