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Tumbulu

(6,630 posts)

43. the crystal toxin produced by the bacteria

Sat Mar 10, 2012, 12:40 AM

Mar 2012

has an additional level of specificity that the toxin produced by the plant does not have.

The natural B.t. crystal requires a particular pH (must be basic) within the gut and an enzyme to turn it into the the toxin. Without both present the crystal simply biodegrades.

However the toxin produced by the gmo plants is simply the raw toxin, no enzyme or insect specific gut pH is required. In addition it lasts far longer in the environment than the crystal toxin (24 hr vs 14 days).

I have never seen any toxicity studies of this raw toxin. My understanding is that the EPA ruled that it was exempt from toxicity testing because they were told by industry that it was the same thing- the crystal and the protoxin not in a crystal form.

They are not.

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Insect Experts issue "Urgent" Warning on using GM seeds [View all] hedgehog Mar 2012 OP

I guess God must have created some Bt resistant rootworms just to teach us a lesson. nt bemildred Mar 2012 #1

Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2012 #2

from your article above ...we just sold our corn surplus to CHINA lovuian Mar 2012 #3

Resistant? MuseRider Mar 2012 #4

I had read somewhere (but can't find the link now) that about 95% of commercially grown AllyCat Mar 2012 #6

yeah, well we can go back on the DU forum newspeak Mar 2012 #59

Yeah, that was Percy Schmeiser. laundry_queen Apr 2012 #81

Corn couldn't exist/grow in the wild Marthe48 Apr 2012 #80

the name derives from the form of the toxin in situ in Bt.... mike_c Mar 2012 #9

:-) MuseRider Mar 2012 #18

You think that's bad, my family carries what we rerer to as the "Samuel Jackson gene" hedgehog Mar 2012 #22

LOL-- it sounds juvenile... mike_c Mar 2012 #34

If I understood you right caseymoz Mar 2012 #49

I'd like to follow this siligut Mar 2012 #5

Leave it up to Monsanto... CanSocDem Mar 2012 #7

Do not eat corn or corn products. The Doctor. Mar 2012 #8

poisoned? mike_c Mar 2012 #10

You are incorrect! tonybgood Mar 2012 #13

The Bt toxin as used by organic farmers has not been shown to cause harm. hedgehog Mar 2012 #27

That's because it's applied externally and rots, it's not the innards of the plant producing it. saras Mar 2012 #28

the cry endotoxins are identical... mike_c Mar 2012 #30

but in different forms (crystal vs raw toxin) Tumbulu Mar 2012 #44

there is no evidence of vertebrate Bt toxicity at all, period.... mike_c Mar 2012 #29

Good to have that info - it's what I would expect, but I hedgehog Mar 2012 #39

There are thousands of B.t. strains and some produce other endogenous Tumbulu Mar 2012 #45

What are the results? Gore1FL Mar 2012 #50

In the three years that I worked Tumbulu Mar 2012 #57

that's in Bacillus, not in the engineered plant.... mike_c Mar 2012 #58

yes, I in fact identified toxins Tumbulu Mar 2012 #60

Problem is, it isn't just genes that matter. OrwellwasRight Mar 2012 #65

well, Bt is extremely well studied... mike_c Mar 2012 #66

there are actual differences between the specificity/mode of action/biodegradebaly of the B.t. toxin Tumbulu Mar 2012 #72

citation? mike_c Apr 2012 #73

You can google this perhaps Tumbulu Apr 2012 #76

As long as it don't kill you it is good to eat... zeemike Mar 2012 #14

I must be part bug then. DCKit Mar 2012 #21

be that as it may, Bt has nothing to do with it.... mike_c Mar 2012 #31

Well, then I guess whatever it breaks down to is pretty toxic to my system. DCKit Mar 2012 #41

I do believe that the toxin produced by the plant Tumbulu Mar 2012 #47

You have belief, I have Santorum. nt DCKit Mar 2012 #53

Or to re-phrase what you have said - hedgehog Mar 2012 #26

exactly so.... mike_c Mar 2012 #32

Humans shit on all their gifts. Including the earth itself. hunter Mar 2012 #38

Well said! hedgehog Mar 2012 #40

AND in 1986 at the Entomological Association Tumbulu Mar 2012 #46

the crystal toxin produced by the bacteria Tumbulu Mar 2012 #43

Mitchell says, "A lot of the time, farming is run by bankers now". Trillo Mar 2012 #11

Cash-crop farming always has been. HubertHeaver Mar 2012 #17

And in modern day America, zoning codes are used Trillo Mar 2012 #56

Pre-Civil War subsistence agriculture was the rule for poor whites and free blacks. HubertHeaver Mar 2012 #61

Can't sell a solution if there are no problems. The Spanish did their best to outlaw the natives in harun Mar 2012 #63

Back to the pesticides. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #12

$15 a bushel corn! sulphurdunn Mar 2012 #15

It is not clear what the urgency is FarCenter Mar 2012 #16

There is always that one greedy F'er down the road that will go fencerow to fencerow with corn while HubertHeaver Mar 2012 #19

It's not so easy for the very large farms to go back to crop rotation anymore NickB79 Apr 2012 #77

Another flavour of "Too Big To Fail"? Nihil Apr 2012 #78

SUPRISE! SUPRISE! Nature is smarter than (Mon)Insaneto. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2012 #20

Of course, this will be kept quiet from the mainstream..... Smilo Mar 2012 #23

I guess the GM manufactuers could Sue the Insects n/t LarryNM Mar 2012 #24

Great! Built in insecticide lunatica Mar 2012 #25

Insects hate it too. Anything dangerous to one form of life is likely to be dangerous to another. harun Mar 2012 #33

oxygen is utterly toxic to anaerobic organisms... mike_c Mar 2012 #36

The Third Horseman of the Apocalypse 1monster Mar 2012 #35

Evolution 1 Genetic Engineering 0. Crunchy Frog Mar 2012 #37

While I hate to see this happening I still think that something like this needed to happen in order jwirr Mar 2012 #42

Heard a report on NPR Bohunk68 Mar 2012 #48

If anything that report actually underestimated how bad the stuff is. JoeyT Mar 2012 #51

My understanding of sustainable or organic gardening methods is that hedgehog Mar 2012 #55

Wow... chervilant Mar 2012 #52

That's primarily due to depleted soil nutrition NickB79 Mar 2012 #70

Indeed. chervilant Mar 2012 #71

No matter what they have ever done to get rid of insects RoccoR5955 Mar 2012 #54

Soylent green is people!.... Evasporque Mar 2012 #62

How ironic that their worst nightmare has been realized, when America's Vidar Mar 2012 #64

The bigger question is how durable is the seed? Baitball Blogger Mar 2012 #67

you mean the wild corn seed? Kali Mar 2012 #68

Well, that's a good thing, right? Baitball Blogger Mar 2012 #69

History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men slackmaster Apr 2012 #74

History shows again and again the folly of mother nature...... nolabels Apr 2012 #79

Don't mess with Mother Nature. Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Apr 2012 #75