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zeemike

(18,998 posts)

31. And what was it like before Chavez?

Mon Feb 17, 2014, 02:00 PM

Feb 2014

All sweetness and light?....I don't know myself do you?...but I am sure for the elite life was good as it has always been.
And who owns the business that supply those goods?...I don't know because i am not there but perhaps you do...and if it is owned by the elite opposition do they have a vested interest to create the problem?

And do the right wing commit some of those crimes or is it all Chavez suporters?...Like the right wing tells us here in the US...if you ask a right winger here in the US all of those murders were caused by Democrats and democratic policies.

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Maduro expels 3 US officials amid protest tensions [View all] Zorro Feb 2014 OP

No we would not try to overthrow a south American country's elected president would we? zeemike Feb 2014 #1

Are you suggesting the Obama administration is attempting to overthrow the Venezuelan government? Zorro Feb 2014 #2

Read it any way you want. zeemike Feb 2014 #3

The oil companies are getting VZ oil hack89 Feb 2014 #11

But having to pay them for it. zeemike Feb 2014 #21

Chavez, Cabello, Rangel are those few elite families Zorro Feb 2014 #22

Do you have any proof of that? zeemike Feb 2014 #24

Curiously Zorro Feb 2014 #25

Oil companies care only about stock prices and revenue hack89 Feb 2014 #26

But where does the money go that they pay for the oil? zeemike Feb 2014 #27

Why would oil companies care about a handful of rich Venezuelans? hack89 Feb 2014 #28

Because they make more money when they are in control. zeemike Feb 2014 #34

Every year oil companies make record profits hack89 Feb 2014 #38

Well policies towed Latin America have not changed. zeemike Feb 2014 #44

There are always coups in SA hack89 Feb 2014 #49

"There are always coups in SA" = lol. Yes, just natural occurrences, like the weather. El_Johns Feb 2014 #123

"Because they make more money when they are in control." EX500rider Feb 2014 #139

Projects that help the people? sked14 Feb 2014 #30

And what was it like before Chavez? zeemike Feb 2014 #31

And I suppose it's gotten better economically with Chavez/Maduro? sked14 Feb 2014 #33

there have been substantial gains for the poor in Venezuela. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #35

Exactly, and the corruption of the Chavez/Maduro govt. sked14 Feb 2014 #37

i would give it more credence if there were any rational purpose for the US geek tragedy Feb 2014 #40

+100. sked14 Feb 2014 #43

At the same time there were substantial gains all over Latin America. Not just Venz. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #140

Well I guess for the majority it has. zeemike Feb 2014 #39

It got better in the short run for the poor, sked14 Feb 2014 #42

You seem to know a lot about what is going on there zeemike Feb 2014 #46

I've spent alot of time in Venezuela, sked14 Feb 2014 #48

Venezuela was always one of the more developed countries in South America, not sure anymore Bacchus4.0 Feb 2014 #50

There are shortages because of capital strike. duh. El_Johns Feb 2014 #124

Who says I'm supporting the overthrow of VN govt? sked14 Feb 2014 #135

129 countries export oil.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #32

"But having to pay them for it." EX500rider Feb 2014 #29

the US refines much of Ven's oil and, in fact, sells gasoline back to them Bacchus4.0 Feb 2014 #19

And Cuba gets some of it too. zeemike Feb 2014 #23

"Which pisses them off to no end" EX500rider Feb 2014 #36

Then is should be easy to normalize our relationship with Cuba. zeemike Feb 2014 #105

"Then is should be easy to normalize our relationship with Cuba" EX500rider Feb 2014 #138

What are you going on about? EX500rider Feb 2014 #142

Venezuelan's pay like $5 million a day for those doctors. joshcryer Feb 2014 #96

And they pay in oil. zeemike Feb 2014 #106

Do the math. joshcryer Feb 2014 #116

Well the title of that article "The Logic of Extremism" should speak for itself. zeemike Feb 2014 #119

They're paying way above the going rate. joshcryer Feb 2014 #120

so? China gets alot more of it as repayment for loans n/t Bacchus4.0 Feb 2014 #137

Why, that would be impossible! I'm surprised at you, Zorro, for suggesting such an impossibility. delrem Feb 2014 #4

I just want to add that delrem Feb 2014 #5

Sounds like you agree with Manuro's accusations Zorro Feb 2014 #6

Don't be insane! Where in my response did I indicate such a thing! delrem Feb 2014 #7

Is Mexico in any danger of us overthrowing them? EX500rider Feb 2014 #41

Thank you for asking that question. delrem Feb 2014 #71

Wow, most tortured metaphor ever.. lol EX500rider Feb 2014 #72

No, it isn't. delrem Feb 2014 #73

I say the US is innocent of currently trying to overthrow Venz for their oil.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #74

On the contrary! You made a puerile example of Mexico, delrem Feb 2014 #78

Are you saying we did try to overthrow Mexico since 1938? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #85

fuckidallanyway - I obviously hit a certain limit. delrem Feb 2014 #87

"No, it isn't." EX500rider Feb 2014 #75

You're having a problem, EX500rider? delrem Feb 2014 #80

Oh gosh im gonna cry now...lol Not having any problem, thxs for asking though.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #84

Well, you're capable of typing "lol", at any rate. delrem Feb 2014 #91

Brilliant deduction. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #97

That wasn't a "deduction", EX500rider. You don't understand the meaning of the term. nt delrem Feb 2014 #100

You were brilliantly able to deduce that i can in fact type "lol"...very good!!! n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #103

You don't understand the meaning of "deduction", EX500rider. That's a fact. nt. delrem Feb 2014 #104

Pretty much all you have left, huh delrem, sked14 Feb 2014 #107

Are you actually claiming that EX500rider uses the term 'deduction' correctly? delrem Feb 2014 #109

No, I'm talking about your falsehoods about me not supporting VN democracy sked14 Feb 2014 #112

Oh. As I said, I don't require "links" to this same discussion! delrem Feb 2014 #113

I read that as "I don't require "links" to this same discussion" sked14 Feb 2014 #115

you poor thing! delrem Feb 2014 #117

Nope. sked14 Feb 2014 #118

Pretty sure you just wanna argue about anything...I deducted that!! You better get some rest.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #108

Well, you and sked certainly dug yourself a nice deep trench. delrem Feb 2014 #110

In your opinion that is...I bet we feel the opposite has happened. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #111

We dug a deep trench? sked14 Feb 2014 #114

You might wanna drink less coffee and look up "tongue in cheek" n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #143

Good lord, sked14 Feb 2014 #88

I am? You really are reaching, y'know, for some kind of sense. nt delrem Feb 2014 #89

I'm reaching? sked14 Feb 2014 #93

In this case, yeah, the US is innocent of trying to foment an overthrow of the sked14 Feb 2014 #77

Oh c'mon, you guys are spinning in space, totally out of control. delrem Feb 2014 #79

Really? sked14 Feb 2014 #81

"VN is a powder keg waiting for a match to start the explosion" delrem Feb 2014 #82

Nice misinterpertation of my words, which weren't my words, they're the words of my sked14 Feb 2014 #83

Or really, you now defend Venezuelan democracy. How interesting. delrem Feb 2014 #92

How interesting!! sked14 Feb 2014 #94

I don't have to "link", sked14. delrem Feb 2014 #95

It's not that you don't have to "link" sked14 Feb 2014 #101

All this and you have yet to provide one scintella of evidence that the current unrest sked14 Feb 2014 #90

"No, it isn't" EX500rider Feb 2014 #102

So the Koch brothers and US government are the same thing to you for some reason? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #76

Did I say that? I think you have a problem, EX500rider, in dealing with the meaning of sentences. delrem Feb 2014 #86

Maybe......or just maybe you make everything you say VERY unclear. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #98

You show that you have no clue of the current situation in Venezuela Perseus Feb 2014 #12

Well I did one better...I went to the Latin America forum here. zeemike Feb 2014 #14

Sure! And the students were also disguised in anti-riot police shooting at themselves ChangoLoa Feb 2014 #17

Are the students the children of the elite and wealthy who would benefit from a coup? zeemike Feb 2014 #20

So every college student in Venz comes from the "Elite"? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #45

Well I don't know, are they? zeemike Feb 2014 #47

Most of the "Elite" left in Venz are the Chavista's. EX500rider Feb 2014 #51

So who then is this opposition? zeemike Feb 2014 #53

Or ordinary citizens fed up with the corruption by the Maduro regime and failing economy sked14 Feb 2014 #54

You mean ordinary citizens like these guys? zeemike Feb 2014 #56

LOL!!! sked14 Feb 2014 #59

Well I guess the state TV made that up then. zeemike Feb 2014 #63

Oh baloney. Look who's leading the thing. El_Johns Feb 2014 #125

How about people who want toilet paper and electricity and food on the shelves? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #55

Oh I am sure the elite have no problem getting toilet paper. zeemike Feb 2014 #57

I don't recall Enron causing shortages of basic necessities at the store.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #58

Well tell that to California when they were gouged for electricity zeemike Feb 2014 #61

"I have personal knowledge that the oil shortage in the 70s was manufactured" EX500rider Feb 2014 #62

No it was not called OPEC...that was the straw man excuse for it. zeemike Feb 2014 #64

No, it was OPEC EX500rider Feb 2014 #66

And that is the official story zeemike Feb 2014 #69

The offical story? EX500rider Feb 2014 #145

No the official story was that we were out of oil zeemike Feb 2014 #150

one point well worth reconsidering reddread Feb 2014 #65

If what were easier to do? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #67

Funny, sked14 Feb 2014 #60

You must have missed the power outages & increased prices, then. El_Johns Feb 2014 #126

Not where I live sked14 Feb 2014 #136

"unless you have some facts I am not aware of" EX500rider Feb 2014 #144

So 70% are from high income then. zeemike Feb 2014 #153

No I have no idea how many are from high income.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #154

And Honduras has one twice that at 91.6 zeemike Feb 2014 #156

el Salvador and Belize are not in South America n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #157

de ja vu: US again attempts Coup d'etat brianct Feb 2014 #8

When Obama has Karl Rove or Roger Ailes thrown in jail, then the analogy would be apt. nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #9

Because if Maduro said it, then of course its true! 7962 Feb 2014 #10

We are attempting a coup? what proof do you have of that? hrmjustin Feb 2014 #15

Proof? sked14 Feb 2014 #16

1st we aren't a "enemy foreign govt" but Venezuela's largest export AND import partner.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #146

He will declare a state of emergency soon hack89 Feb 2014 #13

Can you say 1%? "Leopoldo Lopez Mendoza comes from one of Venezuela’s wealthiest families Zorra Feb 2014 #18

Well there is no confusing you with Zorro. zeemike Feb 2014 #52

Thanks. I'm glad of that because we seem to be polar opposites ideologically, Zorra Feb 2014 #70

Are you alleging that Lopez started these protests? joshcryer Feb 2014 #99

I am only able to make out a few words, but the smaller woman is crying, then she cries, and I am. freshwest Feb 2014 #121

Around 50 die each day to violence. joshcryer Feb 2014 #122

Yet you're not weeping crocodile tears for Honduras, with the world's highest murder rate... El_Johns Feb 2014 #127

Classic deflection. joshcryer Feb 2014 #129

Honduras' per capita murder rate is 91.6. Venezuela's is 45.1, in the same league as Jamaica El_Johns Feb 2014 #132

I said overall, not per 100k. joshcryer Feb 2014 #134

Sounds like there is a problem with free speech. treestar Feb 2014 #68

The important universities are bastions of the right, and they say whatever they like there. El_Johns Feb 2014 #128

University education is free in Venezuela. joshcryer Feb 2014 #130

Yet that's how it pans out. El_Johns Feb 2014 #131

There's no cite for that. Venezuela places 2nd highest in enrollment: joshcryer Feb 2014 #133

Not per the actual UNESCO data. El_Johns Feb 2014 #141

That data is almost a decade old or more. joshcryer Feb 2014 #147

2007 is not "more than a decade old". The article you linked cited unesco. I linked the UNESCO El_Johns Feb 2014 #148

2007 is almost a decade. 1998 is more than a decade. joshcryer Feb 2014 #149

The UNESCO #s = 2007. Not more than a decade. El_Johns Feb 2014 #151

Right. That's what I said. Almost a decade. joshcryer Feb 2014 #152

8 shot in Valencia by chavista paramilitaries (Spanish) Bacchus4.0 Feb 2014 #155