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muriel_volestrangler

(106,077 posts)
17. The documents are evidence of wrong-doing by my government, and yours
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 01:10 PM
Feb 2014

That is the 'liberty interest'. They are of interest to the citizens of several countries (Brazil, Germany, the USA, Indonesia, Australia, the UK ...), and, after the seizure of Miranda's property, Greenwald has continued to publish exposes of wrong-doing, in conjunction with newspapers in several countries (including the Guardian). By claiming this was 'about his book', when you know very well he has published a lot more journalism (including, for instance, the website linked to in the OP), you are making yourself look dishonest.

The Guardian has not 'dropped this'; it continues to support Miranda and Greenwald, publishing this, for instance:

David Miranda's detention: a chilling attack on journalism

When the partner of journalist Glenn Greenwald was detained at Heathrow airport last August under the Terrorism Act, MI5 were pulling the strings and knew full well that he wasn't a terrorist

Luke Harding
The Guardian, Sunday 2 February 2014 19.01 GMT

...
The use of schedule 7 against someone who was known not to be a terrorist was a blatant abuse – and an alarming precedent in which a government matched journalism with terrorism.

This was the first time the much-criticised section of the act had been used against a journalist carrying source material. Coming on top of the forced destruction of the Guardian's computers on 20 July, it looked like a chilling attack on press freedom.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/02/david-miranda-detention-chilling-attack-journalism


Or this, after the verdict today:

The David Miranda judgment has chilling implications for press freedom, race relations and basic justice

The interference of Britains' security services is shocking, but it's also vital that we shed light on the murky reality of schedule 7

...
It is also important to recognise that our judiciary is currently on the back foot. It is not only the European court of human rights that is being attacked by the tabloids and tea party tendency; many of our own judges have been at the receiving end of vitriol for being too committed to human rights. We are now seeing our judiciary in defensive mode. This judgment is another setback but it will form part of a continuing conversation between our courts and the European court of human rights on this issue and many others. As this goes on, let's keep the core message clear: schedule 7 may be lawful but it is really rotten law.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/19/david-miranda-press-freedom-race-justice


A Guardian News & Media spokesperson said:

We’re disappointed by today’s judgment, which means that an Act designed to defeat terrorism can now be used to catch those who are working on fundamentally important issues.

The judgment takes a narrow view of what ‘journalism’ is in the 21st century and a very wide view of the definition of ‘terrorism’. We find that disturbing.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/19/high-court-ruling-on-david-miranda-heathrow-detention-live-coverage#block-5304978de4b0911693db6cb8


Just take a look at the people you are lining up with - the Conservative Home Secretary, a Conservative MP, the Metropolitan Police, and the British security services. Against you, there's Liberty, Article 19, English PEN, Media Legal Defence Initiative , Privacy International, a Liberal Democrat MP with an excellent record, a Conservative MP with a good record on civil liberties, the National Union of Journalists, Reporters Without Borders, and Index on Censorship. You couldn't make it clearer: you stand with state oppression. You should hang your head in shame.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

We are all "terrorists" now. It is the MIC that 'hates our freedoms' and revels in secrecy, IMHO. grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #1
As are most governments. merrily Feb 2014 #2
GG must be furious...the decision rips him apart in a manner that leaves no doubt msanthrope Feb 2014 #3
I have to get to a computer...not a smartphone, but this is an epic msanthrope Feb 2014 #4
Really? You aren't embarrassed by your gushing support of the surveillance state muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #5
Mr. Greenwald chose the venue of the courts, and I am pleased that his Libertarian msanthrope Feb 2014 #7
Your gleeful hatred of liberty and journalism is noted muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #8
Libertarianism, yes. And having the addresses and names of officers in the field is a reason msanthrope Feb 2014 #10
What you are attacking is liberty; the freedom of the press, and freedom of movement muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #13
What is your Liberty interest in stolen property? Greenwald could have published from msanthrope Feb 2014 #14
The documents are evidence of wrong-doing by my government, and yours muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #17
Luke Harding??? The guy Greenwald is pissed off at for writing a Snowden book? msanthrope Feb 2014 #18
Yeah, Luke Harding - you don't have to be Greenwald's best friend to oppose this ruling muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #19
Nonsense--they had no court presence, at all. And being an interested party is the msanthrope Feb 2014 #20
Let an English law group explain it to you: muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #22
You need to read more than one paragraph...under Paragraph 11, the Guardian clearly could have msanthrope Feb 2014 #23
You want to know why Greenwald is complaining that his spouse was detained and threatened muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #24
Look..you and I have a differing opinion on how the law would apply. I merely msanthrope Feb 2014 #26
What Greenwald says about the Guardian - from the final link in the OP: muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #30
Please..this is Glenn..who thinks the Guardian "demonized" Assange.... msanthrope Feb 2014 #32
The 'cite' you asked for would be irrelevant muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #36
No...the cite I asked for pretty much demolishes the whinging. Which is why you won't provide it. msanthrope Feb 2014 #40
I'm sick to death of this moronic argument leftynyc Feb 2014 #31
I thank you. I've not written a word supporting illegal surveillance, but I'm not hooking my star t msanthrope Feb 2014 #33
You don't have to write the actual words to do it. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #53
msanthrope is gleeful that the state can confiscate personal possessions muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #34
If the charge were only against one poster leftynyc Feb 2014 #45
Ridiculous. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #54
Here, Here. +10,000 nt okaawhatever Feb 2014 #64
This is not about 'libertarianism' as usually defined LeftishBrit Feb 2014 #41
Um no...I think Greenwald's "constitutional duties" argument is pure American libertarian. nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #43
Now it's a small "L?" Hissyspit Feb 2014 #56
Big L....autofill. And no refutation, huh?? nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #57
You can always re-edit auto fill errors. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #58
Well, some of us work for a living...nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #59
He is not a Libertarian. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #25
Indeed..his argument regarding constitutional duty is purely Libertarian. nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #28
Hunh? Hissyspit Feb 2014 #6
And Justices Ouseley and Openshaw???? You may not like Judge Laws, but what about the rest? nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #11
The same legal rationale the Egyptian military junta is using to detain Al Jazeera journalists riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #9
David Miranda wasn't a journalist...he was a courier in possession of stolen documents. Which the msanthrope Feb 2014 #12
I'd argue that detention of journalists' family members is just as bad riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #15
There really isn't a liberty interest in stolen property you were going to use for a book. msanthrope Feb 2014 #16
I'm not going to re-hash what muriel volestrangler has already posted to rebut your points riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #27
I'm back on a smartphone that won't allow me to excerpt....some of us work for a living.... msanthrope Feb 2014 #29
Oh you own your position, I'm not doing your work for you. riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #37
Here you go... msanthrope Feb 2014 #42
and what kind of lowlife would put their family member in such a spot? Whisp Feb 2014 #35
LOL, that's all ya got? Back to slamming the source with zero comment on the issue? riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #38
GG is a scammer making money off of stolen classified files. Whisp Feb 2014 #39
Even if true Hissyspit Feb 2014 #52
Miranda did it of his own free well and volition. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #51
The key issue regarding Snowden/Greenwald, Manning, Assange et al. is this: Maedhros Feb 2014 #21
Summary of the whole debate in a nutshell!!! :-) grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #44
Manning's automated download of 750K file, or Snowden's automated download of 1.7 million, struggle4progress Feb 2014 #48
As I mentioned in my post, Maedhros Feb 2014 #50
Hunh? Hissyspit Feb 2014 #55
It doesn't seem a particularly tricky point to me but YMMV struggle4progress Feb 2014 #60
I comprehend it completely. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #61
"I had no time to look at the documents I'm releasing but I'm sure they're evidence of a crime" struggle4progress Feb 2014 #62
This really sucks for people who internationally traffic in stolen classified documents! struggle4progress Feb 2014 #46
That's hardly the whole issue. Hissyspit Feb 2014 #47
Something like that seems to have been the issue before the court struggle4progress Feb 2014 #49
Upon further review Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #63
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