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24601

(4,142 posts)
88. Let's start with a fundamental disagreement it's always a war to attack a civilian. A civilian may
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:31 PM
Feb 2014

be a legitimate target and a uniformed person may be a non-combatant and therefore not a legitimate target.

For example, Hitler was a civilian - he had a uniform but was not himself a member of the German armed forces. Are you really saying FDR would have been a war criminal if he ordered an attack that included Hitler as a target.

I'd recommend that the element is better defined as to whether you are targeting a combatant or a non-combatant. There are plenty of people that fit the non-combatant category. Chaplains and most military medical personnel, despite being members of the armed forces and wearing uniforms, are non-combatants so if they are captured, they are not prisoners of war but instead have the status of detainees.

Combatants come in two different categories, lawful and unlawful. International laws of Armed Conflict (commonly referred to as the Geneva Convention) provides a greater degree of protection to lawful combatants, presumably to deter unlawful combatants (essentially one who lacks legal standing to engage in the fight) and to provide lawful combatants positive incentive to comply with the conventions (there are more than one).

You may not intentionally target non-combatants. That doesn't mean that attacks, even those that are certain to have non-combatant casualties, are illegal. It means that the intended target is legitimate.

If you wish to quote me, please have the decency to not misquote me. I've reviewed my comments in this thread and "How would you deal with the people who want to kill us?" are not my words.

In my two posts, in order, I asked the following questions (These are not quotes but are re-stated)

1. How many drone strikes does it take before a [US] President commits a war crime? Included in this question, does it matter that a target is a US citizen?

2. Why would President Obama expose himself to war crimes scrutiny?

3. Does the location of a terrorist matter if he/she is planning attacks against you. (not you personally but implied that it's a terrorist attack, meaning [intent] a deliberate attack against non-combatants for the purpose [motive] intimidate or coerce. Normally the attack target differs from the victim)

4. Does the Congressional Authorization For Military Force applicable Al Qaeda exclude any territory?

5. Can clothes that don't look like modern US military uniforms determined to be uniforms?

6. How do you engage terrorists who will not comply with the laws of armed conflict?

7. Was it a war crime for FDR and/or Churchill to order the bombing German Industry?

The fallacy of your question is that it presumes an adversarial rank and file (you don't see AQSL blowing themselves up) viewing murder-suicide as a bad thing done as a response to being pissed off. Successful indoctrination that murder-suicides results in an eternity of bliss in paradise doesn't require to require the individual to be angry?

If you are implying that the response to terrorism is a sincere apology, you need to find a different buyer. If I've misread you implication, feel free to clarify. And feel free to address what I really asked.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

We've noticed Kelvin Mace Nov 2013 #1
No kidding. jsr Nov 2013 #4
Ridiculous, as though has Obama has dictatorial powers. lumpy Nov 2013 #28
So, directing your Justice Department Kelvin Mace Dec 2013 #43
Shouldn't the Pres. get advice from experts re. the feasibility in taking actions? Perhaps he has . lumpy Nov 2013 #37
Instant satisfaction? Kelvin Mace Dec 2013 #42
He might have been able to do more Cosmocat Jan 2014 #72
He should have gone after them upon winning first election when he had the country behind him on point Jan 2014 #76
+1000 RC Jan 2014 #77
OK Cosmocat Jan 2014 #78
Don't kill me yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #52
That is certainly a counter argument Kelvin Mace Jan 2014 #58
Very good points yeoman6987 Jan 2014 #61
And in the long run, going after the war criminals would have been the better choice. RC Jan 2014 #79
So Kevin, what is the legal limit before drone strikes, including against citizens of the United 24601 Feb 2014 #82
The use of drones against anyone outside a battlefield, Kelvin Mace Feb 2014 #83
So if someone is planning & directing attacks against you, is their current location part of the 24601 Feb 2014 #86
What is the evidence that someone is making these plans? Kelvin Mace Feb 2014 #87
Let's start with a fundamental disagreement it's always a war to attack a civilian. A civilian may 24601 Feb 2014 #88
Right off I have a disagreement: Kelvin Mace Feb 2014 #91
Sad but true. n/t Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #90
Corporate media is working overtime to Iliyah Nov 2013 #2
Are you seeing the linked article as a negative one? IDemo Nov 2013 #3
thank you passiveporcupine Nov 2013 #5
Obama is not ideological in the sense that he is not working toward any particular political lumpy Nov 2013 #29
with some politicians, it's not what idea but which people yurbud Nov 2013 #39
yeah, we know Skittles Nov 2013 #6
it doesn't take an ideology to defend the Constitution or the Rule of Law. grasswire Nov 2013 #7
So if he wants everyone to "get a fair shake" dflprincess Nov 2013 #8
Talk to God, those are tall order, God has more time and power. lumpy Nov 2013 #30
That's complete nonsense. Bradical79 Jan 2014 #50
ah--Blairite, then nt MisterP Nov 2013 #9
Oh, Mr President! Would a real mountaineer switch direction if the planned ascent struggle4progress Nov 2013 #10
Indeed. ElboRuum Nov 2013 #11
Pragmatists RobinA Nov 2013 #13
Where there is no vision.... pscot Nov 2013 #17
More ideological nonsense... ElboRuum Nov 2013 #19
What a load. U4ikLefty Nov 2013 #27
Yes it did. ElboRuum Nov 2013 #40
Thank you. lumpy Nov 2013 #31
"pragmatists" are more like generals who know their troops will be killed yurbud Nov 2013 #25
Sounds more like the description of an ideologue. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #55
I have more respect for ideologues than corrupt politicians yurbud Jan 2014 #66
heheh treestar Nov 2013 #41
Remember back in the day . . . Brigid Jan 2014 #53
Thanks struggle! Whatever, I'm just Cha Jan 2014 #70
Nothing like pragmatically loosing elections to republicans! /nt Ash_F Jan 2014 #71
"everyone getting a fair shake" and "a strong national defense" are at odds ... Myrina Nov 2013 #12
No matter how insane or malignant the Republicans are, I will meet them half way (at least) Doctor_J Nov 2013 #14
Is this his way of saying he stands for nothing? Doctor_J Nov 2013 #15
??? lumpy Nov 2013 #32
Which I can appreciate... Xyzse Nov 2013 #16
Wrong forum Capt. Obvious Nov 2013 #18
In other words, "I am no liberal." tblue Nov 2013 #20
great--that's like going to the grocery store and none of the cans or boxes have labels or lists of yurbud Nov 2013 #21
Sounds like Obama has an open mind, He's not in a group with set ideas such as a group on which lumpy Nov 2013 #33
Liberal and ideology are two different words with more than one meanings. lumpy Nov 2013 #35
Liberal has broader application than the word ideology. Two different words. lumpy Nov 2013 #38
Pragmatic liberals are the ones who get things done ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #56
if politicians don't really stand for any particular ideas, we don't have a real choice when we vote yurbud Nov 2013 #22
Pretty Much... RobinA Nov 2013 #23
He ran as a Democrat, which supposedly is a particular ideology yurbud Nov 2013 #24
The word idea has a broader meaning than ideology. For instance, " Huckabee had the idea that lumpy Nov 2013 #36
Drivel BeyondGeography Nov 2013 #26
People need dictionaries. nuff said lumpy Nov 2013 #34
I think he is just an intellectual mess. He uses ideology when it suits him. Pterodactyl Jan 2014 #44
He does? That's a load of bull! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2014 #45
OK, OK. He does not use ideology. He just makes stuff up as he goes. Pterodactyl Jan 2014 #48
Oh, just like you do. Put a sock in it. You have no clue what you're talking about. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2014 #67
I don't get it. Are you saying he's ideological or not? Pterodactyl Jan 2014 #68
"Put a sock in it. You have no clue what you're talking about." WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #84
Centrism is an ideology Enrique Jan 2014 #46
"I don't really have any particular ideals" FiveGoodMen Jan 2014 #47
He's simply saying he's a moderate.. which shouldnt be a shock to anyone. DCBob Jan 2014 #49
Really. n/t Smarmie Doofus Jan 2014 #51
Obama was a product of the Daley Machine. former9thward Jan 2014 #54
Pragmatic liberals are the ones who get things done ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #57
You are not inducing in me an urge to get more involved with the Democratic party Fumesucker Jan 2014 #63
The fact that I responded to your OP JoePhilly Jan 2014 #64
My OP? Fumesucker Jan 2014 #65
I was responding by phone ... JoePhilly Jan 2014 #74
Perspectives often differ Fumesucker Jan 2014 #75
Yeah, pragmatic progressivism is very powerful. joshcryer Jan 2014 #69
I believe Dracula said the same thing rock Jan 2014 #59
Yow! That's harsh. Pterodactyl Feb 2014 #80
Nor will his presidency prove to be particularly memorable DerekG Jan 2014 #60
Cool. truthisfreedom Jan 2014 #62
No kidding. nt TBF Jan 2014 #73
Funny, none of this was mentioned Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #81
Except, you know, that whole thing about saying exactly that Recursion Feb 2014 #89
"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything" Zorra Feb 2014 #85
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