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EX500rider

(12,785 posts)

28. Actually I think you are both right..

Thu Feb 27, 2014, 07:04 PM

Feb 2014

..."When Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812, Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly (then Minister of War) chose to follow the scorched earth principle and retreat rather than to risk a major battle. His strategy aroused grudges from most of the generals and soldiers, notably Prince Pyotr Bagration. As Alexander had to choose a new general, there was only one choice: Kutuzov. He found popularity among the troops mainly because he was Russian (most of the generals commanding Russian troops at that time were foreign), he was brave, he had proven himself in battle, strongly believed in the Russian Orthodox Church, and he looked out for the troops’ well-being."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Kutuzov#The_Patriotic_War_.281812.29

They French armies definitely stripped the surrounding areas bare as they past, but the Russian's tried to leave them nothing also.

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Ukrainian city demolishes monument to Russian general who beat Napoleon. [View all] another_liberal Feb 2014 OP

"Scorched Earth" Kutuzov was a "geniune hero"? joshcryer Feb 2014 #1

Your view of history is rather slanted, to say the least! another_liberal Feb 2014 #2

Wow, you are nothing if not flexible... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #3

Scortch Earth was NOT the Russian Policy Against Napoleon, he did that himself.... happyslug Feb 2014 #15

Actually I think you are both right.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #28

This is why DU is so much fun--ya learn something new every day! nt MADem Feb 2014 #79

The Russian campaign is even used as a example on the "Scorched earth" wikki.. EX500rider Feb 2014 #29

I fail to see how War Communism was any different. joshcryer Feb 2014 #49

You're busy helping to stir the ancient bullshit on all fronts, I see. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #69

I'm not the one cheering for secession. joshcryer Feb 2014 #71

You are the one supporting secession, yes. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #72

Russia is the one doing that I'm afraid. joshcryer Feb 2014 #73

Ha, "personal" JackRiddler Feb 2014 #75

Not a win if Russia succeeds in splitting the country up. joshcryer Feb 2014 #77

Statues, not statutes. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #91

I saw nothing unconstitutional. joshcryer Mar 2014 #92

"If someone is offended because symbols of totalitarianism are toppled then I have no sympathy." EX500rider Mar 2014 #93

Thank you! Especially the factoid about the wheat shipments. aquart Mar 2014 #102

Those wheat shipments lead to other things. happyslug Mar 2014 #103

They have a sense of history, of course. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #4

That is some very good writing on your part, my friend. another_liberal Feb 2014 #5

Thank you. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #8

Perhaps they do so due to religious affiliation? another_liberal Feb 2014 #11

Not such a big factor. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #14

"Western Ukraine is largely Greek Catholic (which isn't very much Catholic but recognizes the Pope)" another_liberal Feb 2014 #17

The initials don't have that meaning. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #20

I see. another_liberal Feb 2014 #21

Ukrainian (Greek) Catholics are Catholic. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #24

Except it's not their country's history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #23

Napoleon didn't pass through that place? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #25

You might want to brush up on your history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #27

You don't have the chops for this pedantry JackRiddler Feb 2014 #57

Napoleon was trying to restablish Poland muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #62

It's not their country's history? Huh?!!!! rdharma Feb 2014 #35

How is a Russian General part of Ukrainian history? n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #38

Many Seem Unaware, Sir, Czarist Russia, Like Soviet Russia, Was An Empire The Magistrate Feb 2014 #39

But not this part of present-day Ukraine muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #40

True, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2014 #42

+1 ... Guess they don't want to be "happy serfs" to a modern day tsar, either..? nt MADem Feb 2014 #80

Yeah, one more reason they aren't fond of Russians. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #41

You mean, besides the half of them who are Russians? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #76

Or is it the 17% or so? n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #94

Languages of the Ukraine: JackRiddler Mar 2014 #95

You mean "Ruthenian" history? Right? rdharma Feb 2014 #44

Turns out many smaller members of Empires weren't fond of the experience. EX500rider Feb 2014 #46

They were known as Ruthenians until the early 1900s. rdharma Feb 2014 #50

Since when does "Ukraine" get a monopoly? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #58

"Half the people there are Russian"...um, no, they aren't Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #74

No. It's Russia's history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #52

Kind of like British Generals are not part of American colonial history, eh? nt rdharma Feb 2014 #55

Washington of course was a British general. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #59

Along with Col. Washington..... there were a lot of other British officers..... rdharma Feb 2014 #60

Right, sorry: Colonel, of course. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #67

Washington was a key figure in American history. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #64

He was British because they controlled the colonies. He wasn't born in London, he was born in VA. nt MADem Feb 2014 #81

That analogy would only work if.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #63

Brody wasn't part of Ukraine until the end of WW2 muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #6

I wonder why then Svoboda felt a need to desecrate the monument . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #7

Strange to call this 'desecration' muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #9

You are . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #10

Stop with all that common sense!!! EX500rider Feb 2014 #13

I'd say you've summed up the actual situation brilliantly. Very well done! nt MADem Feb 2014 #83

They didn't "desecrate" it. They removed it with a crane. MADem Feb 2014 #82

Brody, eh? rdharma Feb 2014 #36

For comparison: hedgehog Feb 2014 #12

They both triumphed over Napoleon. another_liberal Feb 2014 #19

"their nation." funny, I thought Ukraine not Russia was their nation geek tragedy Feb 2014 #16

I was, of course, referencing "Svoboda." They are totally Ukrainian. another_liberal Feb 2014 #18

Like it or not, Russification is a subject that is going to upset a lot of people. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #22

"Ukrainians" JackRiddler Feb 2014 #26

I know you want to get all psuedo-philosophical and stuff.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #66

I guess I just have a greater sense of gratitude to men like Kutuzov. another_liberal Feb 2014 #31

Gen. Kutuzov never fought any battles on Ukrainian soil? Are you kidding? rdharma Feb 2014 #47

He was a lieutenant colonel then. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #54

That foot in your mouth uncomfortable? rdharma Feb 2014 #56

Um, no. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #65

Forget it, "Ukrainian" is a transcendent entity. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #70

It's Ukrainian, not "Ukrainian", you nitwit. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #90

The crazy thing is that anyone believes... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #68

Why wouldn't the Ukrainians love a statue of a Russian General? EX500rider Feb 2014 #30

I don't really care whether they love it not . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #32

Sure, sure, who doesn't respect their former genocidal overlords... EX500rider Feb 2014 #33

Kutuzov? another_liberal Feb 2014 #34

"How is he responsible for crimes committed by leaders of the the Soviet Union?" EX500rider Feb 2014 #37

Actually the Israeli Philharmonic has played Wagner . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #43

After not playing it for 70 years. n/t EX500rider Feb 2014 #45

Some turtles live twice that long. another_liberal Feb 2014 #48

Where did i say I hate Russian's? Oh that's right, nowhere. EX500rider Feb 2014 #51

No one is expecting you to be a fan . . . another_liberal Feb 2014 #53

"Letting ancient animosities die a natural death is more to the point." EX500rider Feb 2014 #61

All true. another_liberal Feb 2014 #86

Well there we go. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #96

You can make up stuff all you want... EX500rider Mar 2014 #97

You know what else is funny? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #98

Yep A lot of them have good reason to not be fond of Germans too. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #99

Good grief. That post takes not just the cake, but the entire dessert tray. MADem Feb 2014 #84

I find the framing of the article interesting. Who put the statue up, I wonder? MADem Feb 2014 #78

I tried to find out when that monument was constructed, another_liberal Feb 2014 #85

I looked at the video of the "destruction" of the statue, and there's plainly some "framing" going MADem Feb 2014 #87

"I think they're intending to relocate the thing." another_liberal Feb 2014 #88

If they were intending to get rid of it, it would have been easier to just take a sledgehammer MADem Feb 2014 #89

Destroying statues is a cowardly insult to art. Bill76 Mar 2014 #100

It is a lot to expect Ukrainians to love anything Russian. aquart Mar 2014 #101