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Igel

(37,635 posts)
13. Firepower.
Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:07 AM
Mar 2014

It's the same with the Chechen Republic. It was originally the Chechen-Ingushetia Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, and granted autonomous status within the Russian SFSR (notice the "F" for "federal&quot .

After the USSR dissolved it broke into the Chechen Republic and the Republic of Ingushetia.

The Chechen Republic declared it wanted to break away from Russia.

Russia decided that self-determination wasn't for Chechens. There was a bit of a war, then a bit more of a war.

You'd think maybe this would be a precedent for the justifiable invasion of Crimea. But Putin's all "self-determination" when he makes the self-determination; firmly against it when it doesn't suit him.

Same for the Chinese. The Uighurs have no right to self-determination. They are part of the empire. Nice, abstract principles are always tempered by the needs of the power, by the potential application of force, and by the need for maintaining territorial integrity.

The Chinese in Taiwan have full rights to self-determination, as long as they self-determine what the PRC has already self-determined for them. And, really, they wouldn't mind (the PRC, that is), having it go the same way: Have a group of armed men surround the parliament and not let in any opponents as a representative to parliament that got 4% of the vote was decreed president. Then he can have a self-defense force sporting new PRC materiel occupy the island, have a large media campaign saying how horrible the nationalists (nationalist = fascist!!!, fascist = Japanese aggressor!) and Westerners are, with a snap vote while it's clear that the large country is both threatening, bribing, and occupying the island. It's very much a Russian way of doing things, but the Chinese have shown themselves adept at borrowing political "technology" and adapting it, and even improving on it.

Many here, no doubt, that find a security guard near a polling place in one place in a city and find it to be full-blown fascist and an attempt to force election results would do as they do now--find 30k "unknown" armed occupation troops a perfectly reasonable, safe election. And if only public money is spent--albeit, all for a given decision, using blatant propaganda techniques while controlling the press, outside access, and any dissidents--at least it's free from the taint of "special interests." They, on behalf of the Taiwanese, would welcome their (not "their own&quot Chinese overlords.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If China supports the right of Crimea to break away, it concedes any legal claim against Taiwan geek tragedy Mar 2014 #1
Very true davidpdx Mar 2014 #2
The exact opposite: It's precedent for China's right to conquer Taiwan. DetlefK Mar 2014 #8
Russia's pretext is Crimea is seceding and has a right to do so. nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #9
Russia's pretext is the will of the people! DetlefK Mar 2014 #11
the real issue with China isn't the land of Taiwan, but rather the principle geek tragedy Mar 2014 #12
Firepower. Igel Mar 2014 #13
China won't invade Taiwan--economically they're already integrated geek tragedy Mar 2014 #14
And we continue to murder Puerto Rican Nationalist leaders as well. another_liberal Mar 2014 #35
"And we continue to murder Puerto Rican Nationalist leaders as well." BS EX500rider Mar 2014 #36
You are entitled to your opinion . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #43
Yeah, that's is where i got my FACTS, not opinion. EX500rider Mar 2014 #44
Russia is ready to retaliate with counter sanctions against the EU and US Lodestar Mar 2014 #3
"Why....should we be negotiating in dollars?" Ever walked the streets of Moscow, TOB. Likachev? DFW Mar 2014 #4
I've been to Russia once a year for the last 8 years. go west young man Mar 2014 #15
Last time I was in Moscow DFW Mar 2014 #27
In the modern day go west young man Mar 2014 #29
Sounds like we were at different ends of the spectrum DFW Mar 2014 #32
Very cool. go west young man Mar 2014 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author go west young man Mar 2014 #42
World economic depression anyone? another_liberal Mar 2014 #5
+1 newfie11 Mar 2014 #6
+2 go west young man Mar 2014 #16
+ 3 red dog 1 Mar 2014 #30
+ 4 swilton Mar 2014 #33
It looks like the EU is about to be hit with a BRIC. DeSwiss Mar 2014 #7
good luck getting those countries to tank their economies out geek tragedy Mar 2014 #10
Do the math on those populations and their growth rates go west young man Mar 2014 #17
Russia is a fascist, imperialist, ultranationalist state whose only friends geek tragedy Mar 2014 #18
Your calling Russia names is immature and shows the merit of your argument. go west young man Mar 2014 #19
go out and buy rubles then. if you're so confident in Russia, they're really cheap now geek tragedy Mar 2014 #20
Let me do you one better from the people who really know. go west young man Mar 2014 #22
that graph is all of 2014, including the crisis Russia brought upon itself. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #24
Oh man.... go west young man Mar 2014 #25
you are citing work that was conducted in 2013, before the prospect of sanctions from the geek tragedy Mar 2014 #26
The ruble will recover as it always does. go west young man Mar 2014 #28
"despite having a first tier military" Not even... EX500rider Mar 2014 #37
size matters nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #38
It does and the Ukraine is 10 times Georgia's size.... EX500rider Mar 2014 #39
Yeah, it would be Afghanistan redux if Russia tried to bite off more than Crimea nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #40
Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia. The Stranger Mar 2014 #21
Pretty much. bemildred Mar 2014 #23
why don't you Free Tibet china before you help your buddie russia steal Ukraine. Sunlei Mar 2014 #31
"Chinese President Xi Jinping..is due to attend a nuclear security summit in the Netherlands... red dog 1 Mar 2014 #34
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