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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
61. Or you believe that US troops can NOT use the Baltic states as a base to attack Russia?
Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:17 AM
Mar 2014

Remember, the fear of Russia is NOT from any of the Baltic States, but from them being used as bases to attack Russia (which they have been used to do for at various times over the last 1000 years). That fear is what is driving the Russians, and that fear is what lead the Russians to take over those countries from Sweden in the 1700s. Under the Czars those countries were basically left alone, as long as they knew who NOT to ally with.

Under the Communists, that changed for every one of those countries allied with Germany Against Russia during WWII (now the Soviet Union did occupy them first, but by 1940 it was clear that Hitler was going to attack Russia, the only question was when, thus the US objected to that Soviet move into the Baltics, but Britain refused to condemn Russia for it, the reason was simple, but 1940 Britain was already looking to Russia as an ally against Germany).

Now, Stalin's annexation of the Baltic States was based on the fact his troops were already all over them. Even today Russia claims the annexation was voluntary, the people of the Baltic deny this (with most observers backing the people of the Baltic States). Hitler used those same Baltic States as a base to attack St Petersburgh and Russia itself.

Thus Russia's concern is NOT with the Baltic States themselves, but who may use them to attack Russia. As long as those Baltic States were neutral, not a problem for Russia after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the problem has occurred as those states not only allied with NATO, but let NATO troops from other NATO countries enter and train in their country. Russia can NOT tolerate such movement of troops, ships or planes from other NATO nations.

I have no problem with the Baltic nations allying with NATO, my problem is having NATO troops in those countries. It is the later that will upset Russia and will force Russia to do something about it, just as Stalin did in 1940 when he feared a German move into those same states.

Remember Putin is no Stalin, Putin has no desire to impose his concept of communism on the people of the Baltic States (Which is what Stalin did). Thus Putin will NOT do anything to the people of the Baltic states, except occupy their country to keep NATO forces out of them. It is for that reason, I do not blame the Baltic States for this problem, the problem is one of the making of the US and NATO. The US should NEVER have permitted NATO to violate the US and Russia understanding of 1994 that NATO will NOT expand into Poland or the Baltic States. Again, no problem being allied with NATO, but those countries militaries should NOT be part of the NATO military structure. Remember it is NOT the Baltic States that Russia fears but NATO.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Can anyone say Sudetenland? hobbit709 Mar 2014 #1
I can also say Ostpreuen and Elsass. eom. Bad Thoughts Mar 2014 #5
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #84
Hello and goodbye hobbit709 Mar 2014 #85
History doesn't really repeat itself, but it often rhymes. baldguy Mar 2014 #134
Hillary can, but the usual crowd around here bashed her for making the analogy. Beacool Mar 2014 #141
The bully feels emboldened. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #2
He is certainly "emboldened" by a loud little handful of the DU population. Cha Mar 2014 #67
It's sad. dreamstst Mar 2014 #90
Yeah, they're "trying" but they're not accomplishing Cha Mar 2014 #95
Emboldened also by progressives like Hartmann on RT uhnope Mar 2014 #140
Well this is an unhappy development. uncommonlink Mar 2014 #3
Welcome to DU... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #19
Estonia is a member of NATO. Alas, it won't be a matter of "can." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #23
Yeah, forgot about that... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #40
Thanks for the welcome. uncommonlink Mar 2014 #49
And Poland and England had a mutual defense treaty. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #137
This is sounding disturbingly familiar (n/t) Retrograde Mar 2014 #4
Too bad, so sad Pooty Poot. Estonia is a NATO country, which means your goons geek tragedy Mar 2014 #6
indeed, a member of the EU and NATO frazzled Mar 2014 #7
it's bluster, Russians hate Estonia, fricking hate that country with a passion, geek tragedy Mar 2014 #9
My concern is Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #24
I've heard that theory, never bought it. War between Athens and Sparta was not an geek tragedy Mar 2014 #29
I can see Putin blustering for domestic consumption Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #34
All possible, but I'm pretty sure this is just a tweaking on his part. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #37
And that's why Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were so anxious to join NATO LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #119
Yes, and Austria-Hungary and Serbia dragged Germany and Russia, respectively, amandabeech Mar 2014 #103
What aggressive actions by Estonia? LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #120
I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear. amandabeech Mar 2014 #130
No need to apologize, I wasn't upset with you, just curious LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #131
I'll keep that in mind! amandabeech Mar 2014 #136
INteresting.. thank you, geek. Cha Mar 2014 #68
My first thought. Don't fuck with NATO, it won't go well. Like it or not, they're in this: freshwest Mar 2014 #63
Thank you for all this information, Fresh.. Cha Mar 2014 #69
YW, friend! n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #70
Excellent info Fresh! JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #76
Now we see why sharp_stick Mar 2014 #8
Hey Pootin, I abused a Russian American, want to come over here and do something about it? Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #10
Why did you abuse a Russian American? n/t Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2014 #12
Putin's excuse to invade the Crimea is to protect anyone of Russian decent. I hypothetically Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #25
LMAO ... Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2014 #31
There are enough Russian-speakers in San Jose that ballots, etc. are printed in Russian KamaAina Mar 2014 #13
South Beach in Miami too! Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #26
Here in the Twin Cities too! n/t geardaddy Mar 2014 #33
the ones in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn don't give a fig about Putin. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #35
Who would have thought? KamaAina Mar 2014 #56
milw has(had) a senior housing building that was virtually all russian dembotoz Mar 2014 #22
Wow...I guess Puty has some kind of a death wish... SoapBox Mar 2014 #11
Putin is a god-damned viper LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #14
+ 1 n/t MBS Mar 2014 #17
Good overview. joshcryer Mar 2014 #21
'Thanks' for this. 'Following' you on this, LibEst. elleng Mar 2014 #32
This should be its own post. geardaddy Mar 2014 #36
Thanks. Just the right post. Iterate Mar 2014 #48
Oh, I wondered what the "Esto" stood for.. thank for this, LE.. Cha Mar 2014 #71
It is interesting to hear someone's take who has roots there davidpdx Mar 2014 #72
Check out Geni.com LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #78
+1! NT Adrahil Mar 2014 #73
Remember, there is no invading just Estonia. It is now invading NATO and the 28 countries that okaawhatever Mar 2014 #82
Assumes that NATO would go to war over partial occupation or annexation-- Igel Mar 2014 #92
I don't doubt NATO would step up to the plate for Estonia even if it were a partial invasion. All okaawhatever Mar 2014 #100
Yes, but it would be very good wine and cheese .... MindMover Mar 2014 #102
France should just cater an entire NATO operation. amandabeech Mar 2014 #104
sounds like Estonia is spelled P-O-L-A-N-D. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #15
"I have seen this movie...we win, in the end." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #27
I'm not sure who "we" is... fujiyama Mar 2014 #62
Heh. So do they. sofa king Mar 2014 #88
Putin - International Concern Troll (nt) muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #16
Duzy lol! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #57
that is indeed the question. . MBS Mar 2014 #18
Provocation. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #20
Maybe the shirtless one will try to occupy geardaddy Mar 2014 #28
nope Adam051188 Mar 2014 #30
So Putin, fears NATO will use Estonia as a base against Russia? happyslug Mar 2014 #38
The Baltic States and Poland have every right to ally their interests with the West totodeinhere Mar 2014 #42
You forgot about Poland! geek tragedy Mar 2014 #45
Or you believe that US troops can NOT use the Baltic states as a base to attack Russia? happyslug Mar 2014 #61
I think that's bullshit... Adrahil Mar 2014 #77
Then why are we sending troops??? happyslug Mar 2014 #79
Do you also think that Putin and Russia MUST also try to see this situation amandabeech Mar 2014 #105
Because we are the one nearing RUSSIA, not Russia forces nearing the US. happyslug Mar 2014 #114
Why would the US or NATO want to attack Russia except to defend members? LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #121
As far as I know Russia does have troops doing military exercises LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #125
Excuse me, but Stalin forcibly deported many Baltic citizens to Siberia LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #117
Is any one advocating that today? happyslug Mar 2014 #122
The German forcibly drafted Estonians in WW2. LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #124
Careful...with your incredibly sensible posts... go west young man Mar 2014 #142
Is this snark are are you seriously suggesting that the Teutonic Knights' exploits geek tragedy Mar 2014 #44
. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #58
You have to look from the RUSSIANS point of view, not from the US happyslug Mar 2014 #59
Apparently you think the Russian point of view is the ONLY point of view LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #123
As a Latvian tavernier Mar 2014 #135
Sveiks! LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #138
Hmm is right. 😄 tavernier Mar 2014 #143
I mean, why on EARTH Would the Baltic states feel the need Adrahil Mar 2014 #74
I addressed the Soviet Occupation above happyslug Mar 2014 #81
Why would anyone want to attack Russia in the first place? LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #128
The Teutonic Knights were NOT Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians. They were Germans LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #118
Putin plans to rebuild the empire. sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #39
No, expanding NATO seems like a brilliant move now. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #46
Absolutely. NT Adrahil Mar 2014 #75
I bet a lot of them aren't all that Russian, anymore. sofa king Mar 2014 #89
If I remember correctly, didn't Reagan avebury Mar 2014 #41
Actually, it was the political bent of the government there coupled with amandabeech Mar 2014 #106
1st armored should go sightseeing in the Baltics TomClash Mar 2014 #43
WTF? blackspade Mar 2014 #47
Why is Estonia warmongering? penultimate Mar 2014 #50
Sarcasm, right? uncommonlink Mar 2014 #51
No! I'm tried of Estonia throwing its weight around causing all sorts of problems.... penultimate Mar 2014 #54
Estonia throwing it's weight around. uncommonlink Mar 2014 #55
I know? 'What the heck you been reading?' PBO quote on question when he's gonna nuke Russia... n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #65
I KNOW! Them and their whole "internet access is a basic human right" thing! EmilyAnne Mar 2014 #64
Are you serious? LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #116
Sarcasm erglerbergler Mar 2014 #126
I got facebook friend requests from 10 random people from Estonia penultimate Mar 2014 #132
Estonia is a dagger pointed right at Moscow. Throd Mar 2014 #52
More sarcasm? uncommonlink Mar 2014 #53
I don't see how people keep defending him. tarheelsunc Mar 2014 #60
They're digging in and pushing more Putin is wonderful. It's all the USA's fault Putin's Cha Mar 2014 #66
just a reminder mitchtv Mar 2014 #91
fyi LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #127
I stand corrected, thanks mitchtv Mar 2014 #139
I don't see any of his sycophants on this thread. Codeine Mar 2014 #80
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #87
Estonians have an expression "Vene vark!" KamaAina Mar 2014 #83
Yes. LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #86
Do the younger Russian women have badly bleached hair? amandabeech Mar 2014 #107
Definitely LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #113
Thanks for responding. amandabeech Mar 2014 #115
Gee, why don't we keep pushing their buttons seveneyes Mar 2014 #93
So we just tell a NATO member that if attacked, uncommonlink Mar 2014 #96
We tell a NATO member seveneyes Mar 2014 #97
Estonia is doing nothing wrong. Nt hack89 Mar 2014 #98
My bad seveneyes Mar 2014 #99
What's Estonia doing to not act like a NATO member? uncommonlink Mar 2014 #110
Bad reading comprehension on my part seveneyes Mar 2014 #111
No problem. uncommonlink Mar 2014 #112
Estonia is nothing but a nest of vicious fascists steve2470 Mar 2014 #94
Well then, maybe 2naSalit Mar 2014 #101
What a refreshing thought. n/t amandabeech Mar 2014 #108
The Russians in Estonia could move back to Russia at any time LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #129
Absolutely. I LOVED visiting Tallinn when I lived in St. Petersburg. EmilyAnne Mar 2014 #133
Not buying it. Oakenshield Mar 2014 #109
uhoh Bosonic Mar 2014 #144
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