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karynnj

(60,949 posts)

92. I am saying the latter

Wed Apr 2, 2014, 08:22 AM

Apr 2014

What you seem to resist saying is that some in Yankovitich's party DID turn against him. Not to mention, you seem to imply that the current version of those parties are just "carrying the name".

This is an extremely complex situation. There were (and are) bad elements in both sides. There has been no Ukrainian government that has not been seen as have wide spread corruption - whether West leaning or Russian leaning.

If you look at the numbers in all the votes, what seems clear is that many are not voting. Presumably, all or most of these would be no votes. However, what seems clear is that enough of the people from the Yankovitch aligned parties have shifted to support the current government. This has led to votes like 380 to 0. Note that had all the remainder voted, it still would have been a lopsided yes vote.

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Russia clarifies Ukraine stance as Sergei Lavrov meets John Kerry in Paris. [View all] dipsydoodle Mar 2014 OP

wasn't a coup PatrynXX Mar 2014 #1

Yeah, but . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #3

We didn't "orchestrate" the overthrow of anything... PosterChild Mar 2014 #19

what's with this oft-repeated BS conspiracy theory? uhnope Mar 2014 #24

What's with people burying their heads in the sand and denying facts? PoliticalPothead Mar 2014 #32

"globalresearch.org" don't make me laugh. Thinly disguised Russian talking points uhnope Mar 2014 #42

The facts are in the public record . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #74

yes and the facts easily debunk the conspiracy theory uhnope Mar 2014 #78

Believe whatever makes you happy . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #82

Any credible evidence we "orchestrated" an "overthrow?" I don't think so. NT Adrahil Apr 2014 #93

I have offered a great deal of that evidence already . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #94

What the heck do you think that proves? Adrahil Apr 2014 #95

You are welcome to your opinion. another_liberal Apr 2014 #99

Call it what you want but a bunch of extremists (unelected) took over snappyturtle Mar 2014 #5

Which unelected extremists took over the parliament? MNBrewer Mar 2014 #7

I should have worded that differently. The extremists have taken snappyturtle Mar 2014 #30

The people in the Parliament were elected to be there karynnj Mar 2014 #8

facts do not matter to some nt Duckhunter935 Mar 2014 #10

Wrong. Facts do matter to me. See #30. nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #38

Under a gun pointed to their heads cosmicone Mar 2014 #17

The Ukrainian parliamentary election of 2012 took place on 28 October 2012 Duckhunter935 Mar 2014 #23

Yes that is true. And some members of Yanukovych's party, The Party of Regions, snappyturtle Mar 2014 #31

True. See #30. nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #37

+100 !!! And if he had stayed... PosterChild Mar 2014 #20

ppffff! that last line doesn't pass the laugh test. How many times does our government have to yurbud Mar 2014 #79

I wonder how much Secretary Kerry is empowered . . .? another_liberal Mar 2014 #2

Good questions. snappyturtle Mar 2014 #4

While quite true . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #13

That's a common interpretation in the press there. Igel Mar 2014 #28

Any agreement from Kerry and Lavrov would need to be agreed to by Ukraine karynnj Mar 2014 #11

You must have more trust . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #12

Using the analog with Syria, Lavrov's agreement committed Syria karynnj Mar 2014 #16

The current Rada is composed of a part of those who were last elected. another_liberal Mar 2014 #76

Not true - there is a chart showing the parties and the ministers karynnj Mar 2014 #77

But it is not "his party" anymore . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #83

The table of ministers by party was updated 4 times in March - the last March 24. karynnj Mar 2014 #84

Ministers are not the same as Rada members. another_liberal Mar 2014 #85

It is the number of members in the Rada - and the numbers were updated karynnj Mar 2014 #86

There were entire parties outlawed . . . another_liberal Mar 2014 #87

I read that some of the western Ukraine municipalities karynnj Mar 2014 #88

Here are links to a few articles on the subject. There are many more, of course. another_liberal Apr 2014 #89

Reading comprehension is important karynnj Apr 2014 #90

Like I said . . . another_liberal Apr 2014 #91

I am saying the latter karynnj Apr 2014 #92

In the end, the US will be lucky if they get to keep their puppet gov't in Kiev. reformist2 Mar 2014 #6

OK Duckhunter935 Mar 2014 #9

This is what I've been hearing for a while now from the Russian side. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #14

Neither the US nor the rest of the world should accept a referendum held TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #15

Absolutely! + 100 !!! PosterChild Mar 2014 #21

Obama and Kerry should wake up and smell the coffee cosmicone Mar 2014 #18

RE: and not something the size of Russia or China PosterChild Mar 2014 #22

Have you look at the combined geographical area to which you referred dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #29

Just another case of shock n' awe, dontcha know! snappyturtle Mar 2014 #33

No, I have not, but... PosterChild Mar 2014 #41

not anymore qazplm Mar 2014 #46

Thanks for the update - I'll have to look into it. (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #54

Napoleon and Hitler thought the same way. cosmicone Mar 2014 #40

not the same thing qazplm Mar 2014 #47

I'm not a military expert... PosterChild Mar 2014 #53

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #67

yeah no qazplm Mar 2014 #26

The US will act militarily for US interests or NATO/defense pact necessity. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #27

One small problem here: Ukraine is not a NATO country and if Lavrov has his way it won't be. nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #35

Did I say it was? That's why we're not going to send troops to fight there. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #45

IF Russia were a threat to the entire Ukraine qazplm Mar 2014 #49

I don't think we will. I don't see any scenario in which we put US/NATO troops TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #51

To use a Reagan phrase: "There you go again". See why I may be confused? snappyturtle Mar 2014 #57

Yeah, yeah, we got Ukraine to protest its government and the Parliament TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #58

There's an old saying: Ignorance is bliss. nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #59

Excuse me. I guess I just assumed that because the OP is about Ukraine snappyturtle Mar 2014 #56

Ukraine isn't and will never be a member of NATO. n/t cosmicone Mar 2014 #39

Didn't say it was, nor was going to be. By "sphere", I mean Ukraine wanting TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #48

incredible. Russia is openly threatening to take over south and east Ukraine. Can the dictator uhnope Mar 2014 #25

What are you talking about? snappyturtle Mar 2014 #34

"Frankly speaking, we don't see any other way for the steady development of the Ukrainian state... uhnope Mar 2014 #36

Wrong....not a part of the Russian Federation but as a newly formed Ukraine Federation. snappyturtle Mar 2014 #43

Russian Army was "invited" to invade Czechoslovakia in 1968. Same tactics, different dictator uhnope Mar 2014 #44

American army was "invited" to invade Vietnam, too. Same tactics, different dictator... Lars28 Mar 2014 #50

You're calling LBJ a dictator? Really? And admitting Putin is one & that Crimea parallels Vietnam... uhnope Mar 2014 #52

LBJ tried to kill me. Lars28 Mar 2014 #55

Crimean youth will now be subject to conscription as Russian citizens. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #61

So what? Lars28 Mar 2014 #70

Lars, time to tell us about your support for Putin. uhnope Mar 2014 #68

When did I say I supported Putin? Lars28 Mar 2014 #69

Fair enough. nt uhnope Mar 2014 #72

Wow, so every US President who had a war during conscription was a "dictator"? lol EX500rider Apr 2014 #96

cool story bro. dionysus Apr 2014 #98

Along with Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria...... dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #63

are you actually defending the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968? uhnope Mar 2014 #71

No dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #73

Not openly threatening at this time. But that would be the result, as some in a Ukrianian Federation freshwest Mar 2014 #80

Is this a line from a Superman comic? go west young man Mar 2014 #81

What happened in Ukraine is none of their business, it's a foreign country. Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2014 #60

Same applies to all foreign nations. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #62

No other country crossed a border with their military. Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2014 #64

You'd said dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #65

Who else is occupying Ukraine? Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2014 #66

"Stop trying to distract with BS." duzy uhnope Mar 2014 #75

RT, LOL. dionysus Apr 2014 #97