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X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

40. You really should have quoted the next bit..

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 05:32 PM

Apr 2014

Sec. 1. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

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Teen shot dead and another injured after suspected home invasion in Detroit [View all] SpartanDem Apr 2014 OP

Unless there's something else we don't know brentspeak Apr 2014 #1

Yes. 840high Apr 2014 #2

If he shot at them after they exited the house exboyfil Apr 2014 #3

"Might be", did the home owner have a reasonable expectation they were going outside to get weapons marble falls Apr 2014 #7

Will be exboyfil Apr 2014 #20

Ever been to Detroit? The cops have neighborhoods they've announced they will not patrol..... marble falls Apr 2014 #37

The Detroit Police Chief encourages homeowners to protect themselves BeatleBoot Apr 2014 #4

Because their police department is so christx30 Apr 2014 #14

Breaking into someones house to steal warrant46 Apr 2014 #56

And one can avoid death christx30 Apr 2014 #60

Although to be fair--- warrant46 Apr 2014 #61

Drunk guy, late at night in Detroit christx30 Apr 2014 #62

Where I live Northern Wisconsin A/K/A Wistucky warrant46 Apr 2014 #63

were they armed? the robbers i mean leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #5

Does it matter? IronGate Apr 2014 #6

Yes Ash_F Apr 2014 #8

I think if I had been the homeowner, YarnAddict Apr 2014 #10

OK, but you would still be subject to the laws of the state you live in, afterward. Ash_F Apr 2014 #12

No. IronGate Apr 2014 #11

Wrong. /nt Ash_F Apr 2014 #13

Then show us the law that says it matters if an intruder is armed or not. IronGate Apr 2014 #15

You should not use wikipedia as a source. Ash_F Apr 2014 #16

And you should understand that any unlawful intrusion into a home IronGate Apr 2014 #17

And you should understand how a subclause works Ash_F Apr 2014 #18

Which is exactly why he was fully justified in using deadly force. IronGate Apr 2014 #19

It is relevant to whether he would have reasonable belief of bodily harm at the time Ash_F Apr 2014 #21

Excellent answer. IronGate Apr 2014 #22

If somebody kicks down your door, I think its safe to assume you're in danger of being harmed. 7962 Apr 2014 #24

Maybe. I can think of one case as precedence that agrees with you. Ash_F Apr 2014 #35

You really should have quoted the next bit.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #40

Oh my dog, read post #18 /nt Ash_F Apr 2014 #41

I did.. you seemed to miss the point. X_Digger Apr 2014 #43

It is not convoluted legalese. It is plain English . Ash_F Apr 2014 #44

Do you dispute my simpler sentence? X_Digger Apr 2014 #46

sigh Ash_F Apr 2014 #48

I know what a rebuttable presumption is, thanks. X_Digger Apr 2014 #51

"it's up to the police to rebut that presumption" Ash_F Apr 2014 #57

It's reasonable that two 19 yr olds could beat a 47-yr old to death NickB79 Apr 2014 #72

15 year olds. /nt Ash_F Apr 2014 #73

The OP says 19 yr olds NickB79 Apr 2014 #74

See post 69 /nt Ash_F Apr 2014 #75

Should the homeowner have to ascertain that before defending himself? X_Digger Apr 2014 #39

It depends. Ash_F Apr 2014 #42

No it really doesn't. X_Digger Apr 2014 #45

No, but it also doesn't mean you can shoot them no matter what and get away with it. Ash_F Apr 2014 #47

Where's this 'on my property' business?!? This is about someone breaking and entering your home. n/t X_Digger Apr 2014 #49

While you are getting sidetracked... Ash_F Apr 2014 #50

Err.. Home Invasion includes B&E in MI.. X_Digger Apr 2014 #55

All break-ins are home invasions; but not all home invasions are break-ins Ash_F Apr 2014 #58

HI 1st degree requires an occupant. 2nd, 3rd do not. X_Digger Apr 2014 #66

Not all state's castle dotrine the same someone else Apr 2014 #53

Even in Texas, you have to show you had no other reasonable way to get your TV back Ash_F Apr 2014 #59

The homeowner is 100 percent right in this case. yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #77

Well it is a good thing you aren't. Ash_F Apr 2014 #79

"Does it matter?" meanit Apr 2014 #23

I could care less about guns, IronGate Apr 2014 #25

did it matter whether trayvon martin was armed or not ? leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #27

What does Trayvon Martin have to do with this thread? IronGate Apr 2014 #29

The homeowner meanit Apr 2014 #65

did it matter whether trayvon martin was armed or not ? leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #26

Trayvon Martin didn't home invade anyone or do anything illegal. IronGate Apr 2014 #28

being armed or not does matter in that situation and this one leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #33

When someone breaks into your home while you're there, IronGate Apr 2014 #36

I am far from a gun nut... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #64

That's my old neighborhood Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2014 #9

Yes it is. yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #78

Sounds like a legit use of force rollin74 Apr 2014 #30

Ahhh, but Trayvon Martin. IronGate Apr 2014 #31

Then why is the shooter in custody? philosslayer Apr 2014 #32

They broke into an occupied home, IronGate Apr 2014 #34

Probably to establish the facts surrounding the shooting NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #68

The biggest criminals are the ones running Detroit. nt valerief Apr 2014 #38

No, the ones who are, and have run, Michigan philosslayer Apr 2014 #52

Uh, the state of Michigan runs Detroit. nt valerief Apr 2014 #71

We're they shot in the back while fleeing! upaloopa Apr 2014 #54

Someone who decides to invade my home, SevenSixtyTwo Apr 2014 #67

Update: Suspected intruder killed by homeowner was 15 years old SpartanDem Apr 2014 #69

I suppose the owner considered his life of some value. ileus Apr 2014 #70

and 15 year olds can kill Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #76

Hopefully a lesson is learned here yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #80