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struggle4progress

(126,157 posts)
22. The problem, as I expect we've discussed previously, is the Beltway consensus
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 07:41 PM
Apr 2014

that al-Qaida and affiliated/related organizations should be handled by military methods, rather than by criminal justice methods

The military model does not presume persons, such as prisoners of war, are entitled to any beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard for detention, nor will it provide determinate-length sentences: the prisoners are typically held until hostilities cease. The model, however, involves assumptions that the opponent has state-like organization and that the end of hostilities can be negotiated and enforced, which may be questionable when the opponent is a loose confederation like al-Qaida

To end applicability of the military model here, one needs Congressional repeal of the AUMF

As long as the current Beltway consensus prevails and the AUMF remains in force, persons captured abroad may be subject to standards Congress may provide, as specified in the Constitution Art I Sec 8 Par 11: The Congress shall have Power To ... make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water

In signing the NDAA, the President wrote:

Section 1021 affirms the executive branch's authority to detain persons covered by the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note). This section breaks no new ground and is unnecessary. The authority it describes was included in the 2001 AUMF, as recognized by the Supreme Court and confirmed through lower court decisions since then. Two critical limitations in section 1021 confirm that it solely codifies established authorities ... I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law. Section 1022 seeks to require military custody for a narrow category of non-citizen detainees who are "captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force." This section is ill-conceived and will do nothing to improve the security of the United States. The executive branch already has the authority to detain in military custody those members of al-Qa'ida who are captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the AUMF, and as Commander in Chief I have directed the military to do so where appropriate. I reject any approach that would mandate military custody where law enforcement provides the best method of incapacitating a terrorist threat. While section 1022 is unnecessary and has the potential to create uncertainty, I have signed the bill because I believe that this section can be interpreted and applied in a manner that avoids undue harm to our current operations.


Shortly afterwards,

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American Democracy, (1787-2001) Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #1
Plaintiffs challenged the law, claiming it allowed for their indefinite detention. 2nd Circuit ruled struggle4progress Apr 2014 #9
Bullcrap. "Can the NDAA be read to allow the president to detain indefinitely anyone he wants? rhett o rick Apr 2014 #10
It seems you still haven't read the 2nd Circuit decision: struggle4progress Apr 2014 #11
Since apparently you have nothing to add but snark rhett o rick Apr 2014 #12
So they find that the plaintiffs have no standing and dismiss. The Stranger Apr 2014 #17
Would you rather have had the court agree with the plaintiffs' rightwing crackpot view of the law? struggle4progress Apr 2014 #18
This isn't something the Court should defer on. The Stranger Apr 2014 #19
Plaintiffs challenged NDAA section 1210, which (with respect to citizen plaintiffs) essentially said struggle4progress Apr 2014 #20
The support for the NDAA and indefinite detention is unbelievable. Would these rhett o rick Apr 2014 #29
Absolutely! Kelvin Mace May 2014 #35
Let's look at your logic here. The current law allows indefinite detention. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #26
I do not call the plaintiffs rightwing crackpots: I say that their case unwisely advanced struggle4progress Apr 2014 #27
You are wrong. The law currently allows indefinite detention. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #28
He can detain Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #13
I'm afraid you wouldn't be a good lawyer. The legislative history of the NDAA, as described struggle4progress Apr 2014 #15
Let's just look at the text you highlight Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #21
The problem, as I expect we've discussed previously, is the Beltway consensus struggle4progress Apr 2014 #22
The use of the military to attack Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #23
Well, large numbers of DUers understood a decade ago that the AUMF meant war within a few weeks, struggle4progress Apr 2014 #24
Yes, many of us Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #30
Yes, the death of Democracy, and with the support of the American people depending on sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #32
As you can see in this thread, there are some try to rationalize away the rhett o rick Apr 2014 #33
People are arguing HARD Kelvin Mace Apr 2014 #34
The case is very simple. Jose Padilla was arrested, detained without council, tortured until rhett o rick May 2014 #36
They don't want to see their own complicity Kelvin Mace May 2014 #37
The head title guys at Reuters and AP are paid talent to twist the news with anti-Obama hints, in Fred Sanders Apr 2014 #2
The DOJ is NOT required to argue for the upholding of the current law. former9thward Apr 2014 #3
True, they finally changed their minds, but that is rare as rare can be. Fred Sanders Apr 2014 #4
In other words, they don't have to defend it. caseymoz Apr 2014 #7
The outrage comes from an inability to rise above Faux Nooz level trained responses. freshwest May 2014 #39
More SCOTUS corruption blackspade Apr 2014 #5
Night of the Living Dead Democracy blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #6
IIRC the 2nd Circuit determined, that plaintiffs did not have standing, was based struggle4progress Apr 2014 #8
Thanks for the facts. The outrage machine feeds the Ignoratti who hate PBO. The Idiocracy cometh. freshwest May 2014 #38
This is a simple case. The SCOTUS said that the NDAA words that allow rhett o rick Apr 2014 #14
The courts held that the law doesn't authorize geek tragedy Apr 2014 #16
Wrong. The courts held that those that challenged the law didnt have STANDING. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #25
The script has already been written in too many people's heads. It writes itself. n/t freshwest May 2014 #40
It's double plus good. Octafish Apr 2014 #31
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