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TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
62. no, he passed it by executing them after rendering them harmless
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 05:57 PM
Apr 2014

You have every right by law to lie in wait in your own home in order to protect yourself, your loved ones and your property. What makes him guilty of murder is that after he rendered them subdued and no longer a threat he executed them. Self-defense only covers the amount of force necessary to subdue a person. He went beyond that as he executed them once they were subdued by his initial shots.

Frankly, had these kids not been breaking into his home in the first place they wouldn't be dead. Had he shot them both dead initially when they appeared in his basement where he was holed up, and called the police within a reasonable time frame afterward he would have committed no crime... lethal force against an intruder in one's home is legal. It's the fact that he executed them after his initial shots subdued them but didn't kill them that made his killing of them a crime.

I have no sympathy for these kids breaking into his home and the homes of others. I do have sympathy for them that they were executed once his initial shots subdued them though there is no guarantee those initial shots wouldn't have eventually killed them or could have and would expect that following recovery they'd be put in jail for breaking into peoples' homes and burglarizing them. They were no innocents. Had his initial shots killed them I wouldn't sympathize at all. Anyone that breaks into someone's home should know they run the risk of being killed for it by someone in the home, and it would be perfectly legal for them to do so. Again, they would not be either dead or injured had they not broken into his home.

I also do feel sympathy for the man that he felt so angry that his home was violated by these two people and that he was afraid because of previous break ins as well as this one. But I don't sympathize with him for acting on that anger and cold bloodedly executing the intruders once he had subdued them and not calling police within a reasonable amount of time afterward. For what he did AFTER he subdued the intruders he was rightfully convicted. For what he did BEFORE he executed the intruders he should not have been convicted, but I have no belief that what he did before he executed the intruders ever came into question by the jury and that they convicted him (rightfully) solely for what he did AFTER he subdued the intruders. Again, what he did BEFORE he subdued them with his initial shoots was both legal and even understandable. What he did AFTER he subdued them was not.

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I'm not unhappy about this...there has to be a line that cannot be passed.. and he passed it... by secondwind Apr 2014 #1
How can you lie in wait IN YOUR OWN HOME? n/t kickysnana Apr 2014 #58
no, he passed it by executing them after rendering them harmless TorchTheWitch Apr 2014 #62
That tape sealed his fate. Seems like a fair verdict to me. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #2
Agreed. mn9driver Apr 2014 #4
Good. Ash_F Apr 2014 #3
Good, thank you for letting us know uppityperson Apr 2014 #5
I am glad to hear that. Those young people did not deserve any of what he did to them. jwirr Apr 2014 #6
They were not angels, but they did not deserve to die. Thor_MN Apr 2014 #18
Their criminal activities were ruled inadmissible sarisataka Apr 2014 #28
Good verdict sarisataka Apr 2014 #7
Is this a mandatory life without possibility of parole? herding cats Apr 2014 #8
Yes. mn9driver Apr 2014 #9
Thank you for the information. herding cats Apr 2014 #10
An appeal is automatic in a murder I conviction. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #12
The defense's time would have been better spent building a case for mental impairment rocktivity Apr 2014 #22
That's not nearly impaired enough for a successful insanity defense. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #36
I wasn't thinking in terms of not guilty by insanity rocktivity Apr 2014 #57
Would that be the state hospital in liberalhistorian Apr 2014 #61
Only 3 hours of deliberation? HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #11
I'm pretty sure one can not set up a trap in the physical sense. Just to be clear. Thor_MN Apr 2014 #19
No, not a booby-trap. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #21
We are on the same page, just wanted to make sure we were not talking punji sticks under the windows Thor_MN Apr 2014 #23
I'd still like to know how he KNEW they would show up rocktivity Apr 2014 #24
They had burglerized him several times before. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #29
I do not believe there is proof that the same kids did it more than once before. glinda Apr 2014 #37
They already been convicted of stealing guns from the house. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #42
The prescriptions found in the car were from another robbery. glinda Apr 2014 #45
Do you have a source for that claim? Ash_F Apr 2014 #63
Sounds like he did not call the cops much if at all. The police in LF are pro-NRA is my guess. glinda Apr 2014 #38
I agree with others that his motive seemed to have been vigilanteism rather than self-defense. WatermelonRat Apr 2014 #13
+1. Better off making his house more secure. Not like they used a tank to break in. freshwest Apr 2014 #15
House is out in the open for all to see. Neighbors are nearby also. glinda Apr 2014 #44
Seems he could've asked for help. Instead he let it eat him up. Now all their lives are over. freshwest Apr 2014 #52
Yes, the kids had broken in at least twice before. HooptieWagon Apr 2014 #25
This is one sick asshole. PeteSelman Apr 2014 #14
Fortunately, here in Minnesota we are more civilized than that. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #16
I concur Randomthought Apr 2014 #34
That's your position. PeteSelman Apr 2014 #54
Why shorten his suffering? jeff47 Apr 2014 #55
I disagree. PeteSelman Apr 2014 #56
For Proof of that Google Oklahoma execution gone bad madokie Apr 2014 #59
thanks for posting this, I have to send the link to a friend here CreekDog Apr 2014 #17
A noisy dog secondvariety Apr 2014 #20
He did not like his neighbor's dog crossing his property. glinda Apr 2014 #39
Such good news. Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Apr 2014 #26
Good Verdict, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2014 #27
Glad to hear it. (nt) Paladin Apr 2014 #30
good riverwalker Apr 2014 #31
Lame excuse to say the reason for moving it was to clean out his garage. glinda Apr 2014 #40
I am constantly grateful that I live in Minnesota. There is still a sense of common decency here. scarletwoman Apr 2014 #32
I would like to know the paperback he was reading when this happened. glinda Apr 2014 #41
Had he killed two black teenagers he'd be acquitted. alp227 Apr 2014 #33
I disagree. Minnesota isn't Florida. Which isn't to say there are no racists here - The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #35
LF is extremely conservative. No liberal Jury here. glinda Apr 2014 #43
I don't doubt LF is conservative The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #46
Try like all of a dozen people of color...... glinda Apr 2014 #48
The key here is the victims were white. Ash_F Apr 2014 #66
Totally agree. glinda May 2014 #68
Did he have a reputation in the neighborhood The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #47
emailed you glinda Apr 2014 #49
GOOD. LiberalElite Apr 2014 #50
Very good news. Coventina Apr 2014 #51
Good n/t whathehell Apr 2014 #53
He was on a mission to kill. truthisfreedom Apr 2014 #60
Audio here Ash_F Apr 2014 #64
One thing I get from that audio, is that the girl was probably just checking on the boy Ash_F Apr 2014 #65
Juror: Recording of Minnesota killings was key Judi Lynn Apr 2014 #67
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