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newthinking

(3,982 posts)
6. Don't be so sure
Sat May 24, 2014, 04:14 PM
May 2014

Because, respectfully, you would be wrong. I don't believe there has been any functioning Democracy since the overthrow. Before that there was corruption but there was also democracy. And it appears there will still be lots of corruption but restoring Democracy will take some time now.

At the same time I am not going to try and argue that in general the East was not opposed to the current government. And in Crimea, while it was not a perfect election (Not just because of Putin but because of Kyiv as well there was no way to express the will of the people with full transparency), but given the general situation there is plenty of other evidence supporting that ultimately this direction was the way the majority wanted.

I mean there was a pew poll taken several weeks later that showed 88% of the population wanted Kiev to accept the ballot results there. polls are not a perfect instrument of democracy but they are somewhat reflective of democratic will. That should be respected.

You might also be surprised to learn that I am deeply disappointed that, basically in their fear of Power in Kiev, Crimea chose Russia. I think that may turn out to be a mistake. But I am not going to debase the people there by making them out to be "Putin's sheep", and where we likely differ is I believe (I know really) that it was ultimately the junta in Kiev and their tolerance of Neo-Nazi militants that brought about the inertia and drove Crimea into Russia.

People react to threat by seeking what they see to be a strong safe hand. Just like after 9/11 where our own people were driven by fear to accept some very bad decisions and we are still living with the results of that. But Crimeans were not afraid of Russia (as the media proclaimed), they were afraid and concerned (and outraged) by the overthrow of the government by a minority made of many who are extremists.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It really does not matter since it is a farce anyway. newthinking May 2014 #1
and he was not corrupt Duckhunter935 May 2014 #4
Don't be so sure newthinking May 2014 #6
Yanukovych spent $30 million on a couple of light fixtures in his house. joshcryer May 2014 #16
Using the government to enrich themselves. Your description sounds familiar.. newthinking May 2014 #18
No, this is actual, literal, theft. joshcryer May 2014 #19
and so can I. The problem seems to be that you paint a picture of white on one side and black on the newthinking May 2014 #21
It is not, but the protests were against corruption, first. joshcryer May 2014 #22
I used to think as you do newthinking May 2014 #23
Absolutely, whataboutism. joshcryer May 2014 #24
I am talking about the trillions lent to them with almost no or little interest newthinking May 2014 #26
It wasn't "lost." joshcryer May 2014 #28
RT was funny yesterday. Igel May 2014 #39
No they were not. You believe things how you want to newthinking May 2014 #45
and some people here think that is acceptable, just shamefull Duckhunter935 May 2014 #2
It is just cause and effect. There was no way there was going to be a fair election newthinking May 2014 #3
we can only hope Duckhunter935 May 2014 #5
Who fostered it? joshcryer May 2014 #15
Didn't the Kiev Post report that the Odessa victims Texas Elvis May 2014 #7
and the next day Duckhunter935 May 2014 #8
It seems like you are defending the Kiev Post after the horse Texas Elvis May 2014 #9
and how many times has RT or others corrected or adjusted a story? Duckhunter935 May 2014 #10
You've absolutely lost me with your insanely off topic rant. Texas Elvis May 2014 #12
The Kyiv Post was reporting on the speculations of investigators. Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #29
See the video in Post 32. Texas Elvis May 2014 #33
Okay, GoWest. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #34
Here's what the Ukranian media is up to on election day. Texas Elvis May 2014 #35
I used to think that. Igel May 2014 #40
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #48
It sounds like most of the eastern portion of Ukraine won't be voting davidpdx May 2014 #11
Right Sector has an established reputation for false flag attacks. Texas Elvis May 2014 #13
Hmmm RT isn't the best source just FYI. Agschmid May 2014 #14
It seems all western media isn't reporting on conflicts and casualties in Ukraine Texas Elvis May 2014 #17
RT is not needed. But the mainstream press left a huge gap by reporting dishonestly or shallowly newthinking May 2014 #20
I've been watching the videos here and elsewhere. Texas Elvis May 2014 #31
I was actually surprised at how well controlled the media has been on this newthinking May 2014 #46
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #49
The Twitter feeds are saying pretty much no election in Donetsk and Luhansk today. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #25
It will be recognized as a "best effort". The plan is for a 5 year term. That should be reduced and newthinking May 2014 #27
That's just for the President dipsydoodle May 2014 #30
Here's what has gone on in Donetsk today. Texas Elvis May 2014 #32
So they didn't allow anyone to vote? joshcryer May 2014 #36
They boycotted the vote in mass Texas Elvis May 2014 #38
Lugansk has all but closed its borders. Igel May 2014 #41
And you assume that people are so stupid in Ukraine (in their concerns about extremists in the junta newthinking May 2014 #47
There is never more than a couple of thousand at those rallies. joshcryer May 2014 #42
The whole thing is pretty weird. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #43
Lack of will, afraid of death. joshcryer May 2014 #44
The reason they have so little power is because the people are not with them newthinking May 2014 #50
The last thing they needed was a bloody conflict on election day. joshcryer May 2014 #37
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