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1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)

11. The whole concept of ...

Tue Jun 10, 2014, 02:07 PM

Jun 2014

Tenure protecting "Academic Freedom" has been turned on it's head. AF protects academicians in researching/studying/writing about/teaching of academic subjects/controversial ideas ... It does not protect academicians from speaking out against non-academic areas; nor, should Tenure guarantee lifetime employment.

Assuming that the school system affords Due Process, e.g., merit rule/workplace rule protections, I support getting rid of Tenure.

Now, Seniority is a different matter. Though I support it as a method for determining Classroom assignments, Teaching Assignments, etc., and in the event of down-sizing, Seniority should be one factor in the retention decision ... following performance determinations. However, the decision to retain a less senior teacher over a more senior teacher should be scrutinized closely.

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California teacher tenure law unconstitutional [View all] Judi Lynn Jun 2014 OP

the anti union race to the top promoters must be drooling with delight nt msongs Jun 2014 #1

I think the Plantiffs are hardly anti-union. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #7

Not only are they anti-union they wish the complete privitization of public schools nt. liskddksil Jun 2014 #24

The eight schoolchildren listed? The ones who testified at trial? Kindly tell me which named msanthrope Jun 2014 #25

All the Rhee, Gates, Broad, Silicon Valley, Hedgefund Money that are Financing Students Matter liskddksil Jun 2014 #30

Judas kids n/t reddread Jun 2014 #31

Yeah those 8 students pooled all their money together and got some lawyers to represent them. neverforget Jun 2014 #60

And not a one of them anywhere to be seen in the 2012 election Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #65

You know, when Justice Marshall and the NAACP put together the Brown Plaintiffs, they msanthrope Jun 2014 #67

If you can't recognize obvious window-dressing then go ahead and continue to be deceived nikto Jun 2014 #92

Indeed...I remember the critiques of Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP when the msanthrope Jun 2014 #95

Nice try at turning it around---FAIL nikto Jun 2014 #99

this is more about teachers who sexually abuse their students hopemountain Jun 2014 #62

What are you talking about???? such Tenured teachers are FIRED all the time, happyslug Jun 2014 #83

what part of the constitution is it violating leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #2

Equal protection. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #5

dont they have to prove that these teachers are bad in order to say that they leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #8

In the two month trial, they apparently did. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #13

ok thanks, didnt see that in the paper leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #46

Damn. femmocrat Jun 2014 #3

I journaled about this related civil rights case--- msanthrope Jun 2014 #4

And all the good teachers will leave the state bluestateguy Jun 2014 #6

The Rubber Room Mosby Jun 2014 #9

It took LAUSD 3.5 million and 5 years just to fire 7 incompetent teachers.... msanthrope Jun 2014 #16

Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #50

That is a statement made on page 15 of the Complaint, and then NOT supported by any evidence happyslug Jun 2014 #84

The rubber rooms were closed about 5 years ago. It was easily done. It turns out that Squinch Jun 2014 #34

For the simplistic and sluggish of mind, the key sentence here is : Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #47

This has nothing to do with California. roody Jun 2014 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2014 #10

What this article is saying is that it is taking from June to August to fire a teacher. 2 months. Squinch Jun 2014 #35

It doesn't take nearly so long, depending of course, upon the circumstance Big_Mike Jun 2014 #64

The average in the private sector companies I worked in were three documented incidents, Squinch Jun 2014 #82

This is about California. roody Jun 2014 #72

What does a DWI have to do with teaching???? happyslug Jun 2014 #85

Perhaps some of the kids drove her to drink. This could be a workplace disabilities case. Is there 24601 Jun 2014 #100

The whole concept of ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #11

A new teacher costs half of my salary. roody Jun 2014 #26

In my organization ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #28

your posts are informed and useful - thanks n/t Psephos Jun 2014 #29

We veterans do spend a lot of time helping new roody Jun 2014 #77

Does your school system have a formalized ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #78

The state of California does. My district does not. roody Jun 2014 #80

I ask because ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #81

Regardless, it s no reason to deny roody Jun 2014 #89

I do not support denying employment rights ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #90

Would that apply also to tenure at universities? eom catrose Jun 2014 #12

No--K -12. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #15

I'm not sure why the difference catrose Jun 2014 #20

The suit didn't address that. Frankly, I think they would be too disparate in situation. K-12 msanthrope Jun 2014 #22

Brown V Board. They convinced the court that K-12 tenure was causing racial discrimination. Xithras Jun 2014 #33

The two types of "tenure" are related only in name Recursion Jun 2014 #52

Also, I believe that if professors apply for tenure pennylane100 Jun 2014 #56

Universities usually have two "tracks" Recursion Jun 2014 #59

K&R DeSwiss Jun 2014 #14

It's virtually impossible to fire Supreme Court justices. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #17

Are you referring to the California Judge (not a justice) that made this ruling? The State of 24601 Jun 2014 #43

Welcome to Silicon Valley corporate education. Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #18

If feel very uneasy about this, even after reading the posts here. I still don't see how tenure is freshwest Jun 2014 #91

The ironic thing is the funding issue is now reterograde Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #97

lots of posters in agreement with Team Bush these days reddread Jun 2014 #19

Ted Olsen was also an attorney for the Plaintiffs. Although he was on the wrong side of Bush v. msanthrope Jun 2014 #21

lots of posters in agreement with Team Bush these days reddread Jun 2014 #32

That one always does erodriguez Jun 2014 #42

I believe you may be onto something. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2014 #45

Yes...of course an attorney who worked for the Obama campaign, has written about it extensively on msanthrope Jun 2014 #68

Well that attorney couldn't possibly be wrong because he worked for OBAMA! That makes neverforget Jun 2014 #86

She, as my username clearly indicates. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #87

I'm sorry! Are you the former Obama attorney representing Student Matters? neverforget Jun 2014 #88

No. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #96

Regardless, that attorney couldn't possibly be wrong because she worked for OBAMA! That makes neverforget Jun 2014 #93

So does the guy who President Obama appointed to handle education Freddie Stubbs Jun 2014 #69

Tenure does not guarantee lifetime employment Blue Idaho Jun 2014 #23

Well said, thanks. Skeeter Barnes Jun 2014 #36

+1 Attacking teachers would have been unfathomable in the past. Live and Learn Jun 2014 #63

This should be an OP. Most people do not know what K-12 tenure means. roody Jun 2014 #79

Aljazeera got it right in their article..... Mona Jun 2014 #27

Isn't the "academic freedom" argument kind of bogus for K-12 teachers? Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #37

With school boards increasingly filled with TeaBaggers it's essential. Blue Idaho Jun 2014 #38

A science teacher in Mississsippi teaching evolution needs academic freedom bluestateguy Jun 2014 #48

Tenure also protects a nutcase teaching creationism as science, however. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #49

Another right winger on the boards. brentspeak Jun 2014 #51

That's twice in this thread that you, a non-donor, has accused a donor Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #54

Oh, a "donor" brentspeak Jun 2014 #57

Well, hurling accusations of being "right-wingers" at people, Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #58

It is disgusting behavior davidpdx Jun 2014 #70

Or, in my junior high for instance, a science teacher saying the sun went around the earth Recursion Jun 2014 #53

Does Mississippi have employment rights for teachers? roody Jun 2014 #73

It's unionized, or was 25 years ago Recursion Jun 2014 #75

If it is a 'right to work' state, the union has no power. roody Jun 2014 #76

Bad news. blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #39

time to boycott, divest our retirement fund and get public colleges & universities to divest from yurbud Jun 2014 #40

Damn Just damn. DamnYankeeInHouston Jun 2014 #41

bump... nt Jesus Malverde Jun 2014 #44

Man that judge threw everything at them ripcord Jun 2014 #55

Yeah, imagine all the great teachers they are going to get Live and Learn Jun 2014 #61

not that there are'nt some BAD teachers, but DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #66

We are fighting a similar situation here in Dallas, TX... kjackson227 Jun 2014 #74

INFO on THE JUDGE...l nikto Jun 2014 #94

thanks reddread Jun 2014 #98