Obama Pledges To Defend Baltic Allies Against Russia

[happyslug]

21. The Russians have a long history of invading its Neighbors??? Its neighbors has invaded Russia

While Russia did invade Afghanistan in the late 1970s, even the Afghan Government viewed it as more of a Coup then an invasion (Afghanistan had been a loyal ally of Russia since the late 1800s, the last King of Afghanistan was picked by Joseph Stalin himself). The same for the Russian "Invasions" of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, both were loyal ally of Russia and Russia moved in to keep them as allies (The US did the same with Dominican Republic in 1965 and Panama more recently).

To go back further, you have to go to the Soviet attack on Finland. That was an invasion, but caused by the demand that Russia wanted more then 40 miles between its Second Biggest City, St Petersburg (then Leningrad) and the Finish border. When the fighting was over, The Fins retained their independence, but Russia obtains its borders.

Other then those invasions, Russia Expansion was based on Russia winning wars against people who INVADED RUSSIA FIRST. Germany attacked Russia in 1914 and 1941, losing big time in 1945. It was the GERMANS that took over Eastern Europe and then used it as a base to attack Russia.

If we go further back in history, the Crimea war (1854). was fought ON RUSSIAN HELD LAND, the Crimea, thus it was a defensive struggle against England, France and Turkey.

In the late 1800s the Russians did move into Central Asia, but that area had been under Russian Control since the time of Catherine the Great one hundred years before. The Changes in the late 1800s was to make the area not only de facto Russia, but de Jure Russia (i.e. Russian not only in FACT but in LAW).

Catherine's attack on the Central Asia Countries and Turkey was to stop the Slave Raids both areas had been during for centuries. She had said enough is enough and launched a full scale attack ending those raids.

Under her son, Paul and her Grandson Nicolas, Russia did end up fighting Imperial France, but to defend Austria, Prussia and other German and Eastern European states from French domination (Poland wanted to support France, but had been divided between Russia, Prussia and Austria in 1792 and thus not a real factor in the Napoleonic Wars). As to the Wars of Polish Partition, Russia only moved to prevent Prussian and Austrian domination of Poland. Yes it was an invasion but given the nature of Poland in the late 1700s, it was more a move to impose order on a system that had broken down.

Russia did fight In the Netherlands, Italy and Germany during the Napoleonic Wars, but not as an invading country, but as an ally against Napoleon. The final push against Napoleon was AFTER Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812. Russian Troops reached Paris by 1814, but by driving the INVADING French army back to France.

Under Peter the Great, the wars that saw him Expand Russia were usually started by Kings Charles XI and XII of Sweden. In the end Peter won out, permitting Peter to build St Petersburg and ending the Baltic being a Swedish lake.

If we look at earlier history, Russia was invaded by the Mongols of the Golden Horde, before that Timerlane (The Greatest single conqueror in history, outdoing even Alexander the Great in terms of land conquered), and before that Genghis Khan (Founded the largest Empire the world had ever seen, but by forming various armies under their own commanders who collectively out did Timerlane, but each one's own conquest much smaller).

Earlier you had Byzantine Armies moving into what is now the Ukraine around 700 AD, and later the Vikings moved into Russia from modern day Sweden.

Now, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia were NEVER invaded by Soviet Union, in 1939 and 1940 they all agree to leave the Russia Army into each country. Given the size of the army of all three countries and the Soviet Army, the three Baltic countries had no other real choice. Either submit or be invaded, they decided the cost of fighting was to high and agreed to the movement of Soviet Troops into all three countries. Once in, elections were held, where the Soviet Troops could vote in, and governments friendly to the Soviet Union was elected and all three countries agree to be admitted into the Soviet Union. Thus no actual invasion. The West went through the motions of protesting, but seeing Russia as the only Land Power, after the fall of France, to be able to take on Hitler, the protests were just motions nothing real.

Yes, Russia has invaded its neighbors, but more often, it is Russian neighbors invading Russia. The main reason for the size of the Russian Army is the desire to have the ability to defend against Sweden, Poland, Germany, Denmark, Romania, Turkey, Iran, Mongolia, China and Japan, all have invaded Russia at one time or another (along with Britain in 1854 and 1918, and the US in 1918, through the US intervention was limited as to time and place).

As to the Ukraine, the Western Ukraine was part of Poland and Lithuania when they attacked Russia, while the Eastern Ukraine was under Turkish control when Turkey invaded Russia.

Given this history, of Russia actually WINNING long term wars that start with an invasion of Russia, I like to quote General Montgomery three rules of warfare:

1. DO NOT INVADE RUSSIA
2. DO NOT GET IN A LAND WAR IN ASIA
3. DO NOT INVADE RUSSIA.