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muriel_volestrangler

(105,600 posts)

22. It would certainly increase the chances of Tory governments

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 05:50 PM

Sep 2014

which is a principle reason why I, as an Englishman, don't want the Scottish to leave.

The fun would start with the next UK election, in May 2015. While the independence negotiations were going on (the SNP reckons they'll take 18 months - that's a minimum), we could elect a Labour majority government - but only a majority with its Scottish MPs (or Labour is the biggest party, but without an absolute majority). If the Tories are the largest party in the rest of the UK, who should be leading the negotiations for 'RUK'? What role, if any, should any SNP MPs, leading their nation out of the country, have in the UK government?

If an independent Scotland did elect a Scottish Labour government soon, I doubt they'd try to reunite. Too much disruption.

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Shock new poll says Scots set to vote yes to independence [View all] muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 OP

These geniuses we'll learn fast enough what it means to be "independent" Helen Borg Sep 2014 #1

Hmmmmmmmm Dyedinthewoolliberal Sep 2014 #4

well look a t tax revenue from Scotland compared to expenditure in it. whatthehey Sep 2014 #129

why? most countries are independent and the scots are wealthy La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #5

If they vote yes, they'll need every pound of it. DFW Sep 2014 #8

My highland relatives would be ecstatic at this. They were victims of the clearances roguevalley Sep 2014 #11

Clearences? Helen Borg Sep 2014 #29

highland clearances were when the rich asses threw everyone into the snow to take there farms for roguevalley Sep 2014 #30

The clearances were centuries ago, and North Sea oil revenues are forecast to decline 38% by 2017 Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #31

perhaps but the past is prologue. human desire to be free is universal. roguevalley Sep 2014 #50

Free from what?? Helen Borg Sep 2014 #57

Free from. sendero Sep 2014 #79

If they have Starbucks and shopping malls... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #81

Good Morning, little miss sunshine! txwhitedove Sep 2014 #91

Which the Scots can't fight against if they stay in the UK. n/t. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #119

Perhaps... However, my bet is... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #121

Probably, in some cases. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #123

Oh, you mean the makers not the takers, Miss Romney? BillZBubb Sep 2014 #151

Please define Dyedinthewoolliberal Sep 2014 #131

really? we wanted free from england with less historica impetus. does that apply to us too? roguevalley Sep 2014 #96

That was a long distance relationship. It was bound to end. Helen Borg Sep 2014 #97

British brutality towards the Irish hasn't faded from our memory riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #112

The Clearances were in the 1880's...130 years is not "centuries ago". Ken Burch Sep 2014 #62

1880s was very much the tail-end of the Clearances - mainly early 19th century muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #66

OK-but "centuries ago" implies it was during the Wars of the Roses(or the reign of "Longshanks"). Ken Burch Sep 2014 #68

No, "centuries ago" implies "more than one" (and I meant "late 1700's-early 1800's). Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #73

LOL tabasco Sep 2014 #108

Someone can't math, apparently Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #110

Near enough to be in living historical memory. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #118

'Living'? No-one has a living memory from the 19th century now muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #120

living in the sense of being fresh in the consciousness. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #122

1900 was the last year of the 19th century, not the first year of the 20th century CBGLuthier Sep 2014 #126

A 'basic fact' that has long been disputed muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #127

ObviousLy... For matters of this importance... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #23

All sides there agreed that 50% +1 vote would be enough. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #69

We split off from the UK with less than 50% support. former9thward Sep 2014 #35

18th century rural America a month's boat ride from England was slightly different. DFW Sep 2014 #67

Well said... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #95

That would be a great subject to poll on DFW Sep 2014 #106

where did you get that data from? happyslug Sep 2014 #115

Those things are never obvious. former9thward Sep 2014 #116

I think they'll do just fine NV Whino Sep 2014 #9

They deserve to be independent from England. They will have problems but nothing ballyhoo Sep 2014 #27

England will save a lot of money too... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #58

Then whats the problem? jamzrockz Sep 2014 #83

England is not the problem... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #84

England IS the problem, first and foremost! IrishAyes Sep 2014 #105

Southeast English Thatcherism is the precise problem. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #124

Sometimes the pot that simmers longest boils over suddenly. IrishAyes Sep 2014 #136

True. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #140

That's definitely where Harry picked up the term, as I believe he was involved with them earlier. IrishAyes Sep 2014 #144

It will mean finally having the chance to be free of Thatcherism. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #36

That's pretty much what the article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune said today dflprincess Sep 2014 #44

Dunno, Scotland does not seem better Helen Borg Sep 2014 #59

Scotland hasn't had the chance to BE better yet, being essentially powerless. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #61

This is where I disagree with you... Helen Borg Sep 2014 #111

That's just simply not true. The Scandinavian countries for example aren't neoliberal riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #114

Yup, this isn't really about burning historical grudges FarrenH Sep 2014 #74

What is your interest in this? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #63

I bet more than one plantation owner said that in 1865. n/t jtuck004 Sep 2014 #64

Rich will get richer and poor will get poorer. Just like in the U.S. nt valerief Sep 2014 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author Kablooie Sep 2014 #102

Rumblings started when revenue from the North Sea oilfields Warpy Sep 2014 #109

The folks in Eire, The Free Republic of Ireland can tell them all about how truly awesome it is. Zorra Sep 2014 #113

I really don't see a problem here. Keefer Sep 2014 #2

The question most up in the air is the currency they'd use, and who'd control it muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #14

They'd be off the EU, I'm afraid. Helen Borg Sep 2014 #24

An independent Scotland wouldn't be able to join the EU for at least five years Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #32

It's also possible that the EU could declare that the admission as part of the UK Ken Burch Sep 2014 #45

New country, back to the queue, I'm afraid Helen Borg Sep 2014 #56

No, it's not possible. Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #76

Just disappointed JK Rowling PatrynXX Sep 2014 #3

i am more shocked by how polite this whole thing has been. at its worst, it was still better than La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #6

The Kochs don't live in Scotland n/t DFW Sep 2014 #10

Amen! dawn frenzy adams Sep 2014 #17

We're just lucky Donald Trump hasn't used his part-Scottish ancestry Ken Burch Sep 2014 #46

Uh, not so much.. whathehell Sep 2014 #82

FREE SCOTLAND Kalidurga Sep 2014 #7

Go, Scotland. But the states? Scotland didn't choose to be part of the UK and this roguevalley Sep 2014 #12

I have no doubt it would be a big mess if individual states decided to leave the union. Kalidurga Sep 2014 #13

They did choose to be part of the UK, in theory at least muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #16

Why? Because it was in the interest of the Scots upper classes to do so. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #47

Made in Scotland: Album celebrates nation's music ahead of independence referendum bananas Sep 2014 #48

the Scots will quickly find that most of Salmond's arguments were hollow, if "yes" wins Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #15

They may well keep the pound FarrenH Sep 2014 #75

It's not something they can do if they want to join the EU. Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #77

Interesting FarrenH Sep 2014 #87

Except... Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #89

Well, yes FarrenH Sep 2014 #92

County to Send Anti-Federal Message by Horseback! elleng Sep 2014 #18

Wrong thread? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #19

No, not wrong thread. elleng Sep 2014 #20

Wouldn't this mean permanent Torry rule in the UK? iandhr Sep 2014 #21

It would certainly increase the chances of Tory governments muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #22

The answer would be for Labour to finally do the sane thing and support proportional representation. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #37

First past the post benefits Labour more at the moment muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #70

If the English want Tory rule... sendero Sep 2014 #80

We don't want to suffer the consequences Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #86

So a whole country .. sendero Sep 2014 #88

At the moment, a party to the right of the Tories - UKIP - is getting very popular muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #90

It will never happen cosmicone Sep 2014 #25

Only if you define 'immigrant' as 'not born in Scotland' muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #71

Thanks for the statistics cosmicone Sep 2014 #93

I haven't been following it as closely as I should. mac56 Sep 2014 #26

Problem is, any concessions Westminster could offer would mean diluting Thatcherism. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #38

I hope they stay but best wishes to them. hrmjustin Sep 2014 #28

It's a good thing Scotland is crappy tank country . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #33

I'm just shocked you haven't accused the Yes movement Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #142

Really? another_liberal Sep 2014 #143

queen enid602 Sep 2014 #34

As someone once put it, "Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl, but she doesn't have a lot to say." n/t. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #39

Would the blue be removed from the Union Jack if this goes through? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #40

Yes shaayecanaan Sep 2014 #43

That's the St George's cross plus the Saint Patrick's Saltire. Turborama Sep 2014 #52

Yes, as I just pointed out in my post shaayecanaan Sep 2014 #55

It's shite being Scottish! Adenoid_Hynkel Sep 2014 #41

Still very unlikely it will go through... shaayecanaan Sep 2014 #42

Yes Scotland Scottish weather forecaster loses it live on air Turborama Sep 2014 #49

That is very good. Tthank you.n/t jtuck004 Sep 2014 #65

Excluding the "don't knows?" I wonder how many of those there are? MADem Sep 2014 #51

YouGov was 47% Yes, 45% No, 8% Don't Know muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #72

And isn't their polling internet based? MADem Sep 2014 #98

Panelbase is internet-based too (nt) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #99

It is hard to know how solid any of this reporting is. MADem Sep 2014 #100

Well, the 60+ age group responded at above-avarage levels in the YouGov survey muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #101

We'll know soon enough--I'm very interested to hear the outcome. nt MADem Sep 2014 #104

Isn't the Bush family involved with the Bank of Scotland? grasswire Sep 2014 #53

If It's Not Scottish, It's Crap!!! U4ikLefty Sep 2014 #54

YouGov is a joke pollster. They've been horrible in every American election BluegrassDem Sep 2014 #60

A subsequent poll (Panelbase) suggests a narrow majority for No LeftishBrit Sep 2014 #78

I think it would be a mistake Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #85

I'll bet Sean Connery is excited. Kablooie Sep 2014 #103

He cares so much about Scotland that he lives in the Bahamas. Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #117

Cornwall is feeling its oats as well flamingdem Sep 2014 #107

UK Tory government blinks: New powers for Scotland if voters say No to independence. pampango Sep 2014 #125

Maybe it's time we give Red States the option to vote on their independence 3rdwaydem Sep 2014 #128

In this case it's more like the blue states La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #130

In any event, we should wash our hands of them 3rdwaydem Sep 2014 #132

Dave's pretty upset Bosonic Sep 2014 #133

The only people who would benefit from the split are those who are already wealthy. Nihil Sep 2014 #134

See Krugman's take. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #135

I know he's right!How can Scotland do this without a currency controlled by your government? CTyankee Sep 2014 #139

New poll: another statistical tie muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #137

The TNS poll has a huge undecided percentage DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #138

Latest (phone) poll from ICM: Yes 49%, No 51% muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #141

Go Scotland! I blow my nose on you English pig dogs! Baclava Sep 2014 #145

Well, that's a pleasant way to introduce yourself muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #146

...another of the Queen's lackeys? - "Scotland forever!" Baclava Sep 2014 #147

Mel Gibson? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #148

William Wallace Baclava Sep 2014 #149

William Wallace eh? Most people really know nothing about him. Adrahil Sep 2014 #150

The betting odds strongly indicate the "NO" side will prevail. BillZBubb Sep 2014 #152