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joshcryer

(62,536 posts)

10. Much has changed.

Tue Sep 9, 2014, 06:59 AM

Sep 2014

We have confirmed UK air traffic controller data, which from the start was denied delivery from pro-Russia CT.

There is overwhelming evidence that, if the Buk was placed in the wrong city, it would have immediately shot down a Russian plane, thus allowing Russia to invade with impunity. This is Ukraine's CT and some other bloggers. If true, it would mean Putin is literally a traitor to his country. But, sorry, this would probably make you sad. I'm simply saying that is how Ukraine saw it. Note: like MH17, the Russian airliner was civilian.

Naturally, the pro-Russians blame Ukraine, either directly (psy-ops) or indirectly (victim balming).

They can't accept that any pro-Russian group could have ever done it, period.

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MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane [View all] reorg Sep 2014 OP

Sounds like they got all the air traffic controller data. joshcryer Sep 2014 #1

not sure about that reorg Sep 2014 #5

The black box recorder will have it all. joshcryer Sep 2014 #7

Apparently you did not read my post reorg Sep 2014 #8

Much has changed. joshcryer Sep 2014 #10

You sound confused reorg Sep 2014 #17

Only mentions damage to the Cockpit area from above floor level rootProbiscus Sep 2014 #2

Buk radar locks. joshcryer Sep 2014 #4

Some peoples' idea of an investigation is to . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #9

The plane full of civilians was fucking shot down. joshcryer Sep 2014 #11

Who is denying that a plane was shot down? another_liberal Sep 2014 #13

The first eyewitnesses interviewed by the BBC reorg Sep 2014 #19

This report was not supposed to assign blame. I think that starts now. karynnj Sep 2014 #26

Missiles fly a ballistic flight path hack89 Sep 2014 #28

NO... missile could take any path programmed in to it quadrature Sep 2014 #49

No. hack89 Sep 2014 #50

Incomplete data The Traveler Sep 2014 #3

Cannon fire from a military jet? Anarcho-Socialist Sep 2014 #6

There were Ukrainian fighter jets active in the area . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #12

No more and no less than you already know the Ukrainian Air Force did it... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #84

Fragments from a missile warhead. nt hack89 Sep 2014 #27

Could be. The evidence of whether it was cannon fire or an exploding missile warhead may be resting pampango Sep 2014 #29

No clearly shrapnel from a proximity fuse shell happyslug Sep 2014 #31

Not from the front. jeff47 Sep 2014 #40

Photos of the cockpit section Bartlet Sep 2014 #63

Consistent with a Buk missile strike. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #14

Cannon fire from a Ukrainian fighter jet . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #16

No, air to air missiles use proximity warheads to explode near the target to destroy it. happyslug Sep 2014 #35

Why argue now about something that esoteric and open to interrpretation . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #53

Open to interpretation???? happyslug Sep 2014 #59

Like I said . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #60

That sounds familiar. Igel Sep 2014 #61

You mean like Bartlet Sep 2014 #65

No. jeff47 Sep 2014 #43

I take it you are an expert in fighter tactics . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #55

It needs to be in cannon range when you explicitly ask about firing a cannon. jeff47 Sep 2014 #67

NO... parkia00 Sep 2014 #47

Who told you that . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #56

Here for one. parkia00 Sep 2014 #80

There is no evience of any aircraft cannon Bartlet Sep 2014 #64

Do we have to wait 'til Christmas for the black boxes to be 'opened' elias49 Sep 2014 #15

Did you read the story? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #18

Last I heard . . . another_liberal Sep 2014 #21

You may have read the story, but not the report reorg Sep 2014 #22

Cockpit recorder is not black boxes, which last I read were in England. elias49 Sep 2014 #23

Incorrect. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #24

If you say so. elias49 Sep 2014 #32

Derp. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #33

Yup. There are two kinds... elias49 Sep 2014 #34

Again I ask, did you read the story? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #36

I read several stories, including the one you refer to... elias49 Sep 2014 #38

Investigations have phases. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #39

Cockpit recorder is a black box. IronGate Sep 2014 #37

But it's necessary to ramp up the public's emotions against Russia NOW! another_liberal Sep 2014 #20

Guardian: MH17: Five things learned from Dutch Safety Board report pampango Sep 2014 #25

One more thing: 1.b The pilots were told they could not fly higher reorg Sep 2014 #70

What a charmingly political way to say that the US State Dept. propaganda was Demeter Sep 2014 #30

Exactly. Thank God it's the Dutch ballyhoo Sep 2014 #42

Yes, this utterly demolishes the "hit by a SAM" story jeff47 Sep 2014 #44

It supports the general theory that a ground-to-air missile hit it muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #45

It supports the idea that it as shot down by a missile hack89 Sep 2014 #48

I hope the investigation dotymed Sep 2014 #41

Is one year excessive? Is it to allow the situation to fade in time? olegramps Sep 2014 #46

One year gives both sides time to negotiate. JDPriestly Sep 2014 #51

if it was a Buk, it was not done by the rebels meMeMEEEE Sep 2014 #54

No Bartlet Sep 2014 #66

to clarify meMeMEEEE Sep 2014 #72

Or if one side were somehow supplied a Buk system from one of those countries. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #75

So the rebels were lying when they claimed to shoot down Ukrainian fighters? (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #68

negative meMeMEEEE Sep 2014 #71

Except they claimed they used a Buk to do it. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #76

Quote please, they never did n/t reorg Sep 2014 #78

Turns out the pic I was thinking of was the one released when they thought jeff47 Sep 2014 #82

Do you mean the specific Jul 17th claim or the ones prior? meMeMEEEE Sep 2014 #79

won't fade meMeMEEEE Sep 2014 #52

Air France flt 447 report was issued 3 years after the crash. EX500rider Sep 2014 #57

Sadly, I don't see any proof Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #58

Doesn't matter. Igel Sep 2014 #62

That just shows how good the cover-up is!!! :sarcasm: (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #69

If by "US cover-up" you mean: reorg Sep 2014 #73

I already debunked that propagandistic bullshit... Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #74

I must have missed it reorg Sep 2014 #77

.... guess that rules out seagulls or geese ... Myrina Sep 2014 #81

addendum: How the NYT interpreted the report reorg Sep 2014 #83

That is OPEDNEWS editorializing karynnj Sep 2014 #85

David Lindorff points out the editorializing by the NYT reorg Sep 2014 #86

It is NOT editorializing to report what the report says AND to add that it is consistent with karynnj Sep 2014 #87

Look, this is getting ridiculous reorg Sep 2014 #88

It is ridiculous - and the reason is that you are being very simplistic and are holding onto RT lies karynnj Sep 2014 #89

I think the first question about the report would be reorg Sep 2014 #90

It is not consistent with - a Ukrainian military plane shot an air-to-air missile / plus gun fire karynnj Sep 2014 #91

Well, RT didn't lie us into an aggressive war reorg Sep 2014 #92