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Divernan

(15,480 posts)
5. Tremendous uncertainty re rights to North Sea Oil,membership in NATO/EU/UN, currency, etc.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:48 AM
Sep 2014

Salmond promises a vote for independence will be financially beneficial to Scots - but even in the best case scenario, there will be tremendous disruption for years, and while Scotland may gain more benefit from North Sea oil, that income is variable depending upon many factors. The UK has promised to devolve more powers to the Scottish parliament if there is a NO vote (i.e., independence is rejected).

In any case, after all these years and years of debate upon the subject, it will be great to have the question decided by popular vote, and most interesting to see how a YES vote, if that is the outcome, plays out. I've spent some time in Edinburgh and the Scottish highlands - love the country and wish it the best.
(More from the OP link)

One housing industry insider said there has already been an impact on the housing market, with signs that the market for homes worth more than £600,000 – the top end of the market in Scotland – is drying up. At the same time, commercial property deals were being put on hold until the vote was known – and could be abandoned in the event of a yes vote.

Some potential property buyers have inserted clauses into their offers saying "subject to a no vote", according to the mortgage broker Ray Boulger of John Charcol. He said: "A yes vote will create massive problems in terms of how mortgages are denominated and regulated. We expect it to be much more difficult for Scottish borrowers to get mortgages post a yes vote."

Other bankers are speaking of a pause in lending until the situation is clear. Lenders are refusing to comment publicly for fear of being accused of playing politics. But one said: "Before that poll [the Sunday Times/YouGov poll that showed the yes campaign in the lead] it was interesting but not critical. Now we are watching things very, very closely. It – introduces huge uncertainty and one way of decreasing our exposure and risk would be to reduce the loan-to-value offered to borrowers."


For one example, defense/military bases:

Defence is not one of the powers devolved to the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh; it remains a reserved responsibility of the UK government. This means defence spending and priorities are under the control of Westminster, as is the operation of Scottish bases and the use of Scottish seas for military purposes.

Most controversially, so too is Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde at Faslane, home to the UK’s four Vanguard-class submarines – that is, Trident, the four submarines, plus missiles and warheads, that act as the UK’s nuclear deterrent. The recent British Social Attitudes survey showed that opposition to nuclear weapons among Scottish voters outweighs support by 46% to 37% (in England and Wales it is 43% in favour, 36% opposed).

Defence is a big employer in Scotland. According to the quarterly location statistics for April 2014, published by the Ministry of Defence, there were 14,510 MoD personnel based in Scotland, 7.5% of the UK’s total, of whom 10,600 were military (4,210 navy; 3,690 army; 2,700 air force) and 3,910 civilian. The MoD says that by 2020 the number of personnel in Scotland is due to increase to 12,500 (8.8% of the UK total), though overall numbers across the UK are decreasing.

The Clyde naval base at Argyll and Bute – which also includes a large separate high-security nuclear warhead facility at Coulport nearby – is Scotland’s biggest employment site, according to the MoD. Currently around £140m a year is spent on Scotland’s defence estate, which includes Clyde as well as military sites in Leuchars, Kinloss, Lossiemouth, Fort George, Royal Marines Condor near Arbroath, and the Hebrides Range.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2014/sep/04/scottish-independence-scotland-defence-trident

And re currency:
The future of the currency is of crucial importance. George Osborne, the Conservative chancellor, and spokesmen for the two other main parties have recently said that full currency union would not be acceptable in the wake of a yes vote for independence. The SNP has said that it would be in the interest not only of Scotland but also of the rest of the UK, especially as it would avoid transaction costs on trade. But retaining full currency integration with only one central bank would require Scotland and the rest of the UK to be jointly responsible for debt in both countries. Scotland is too small to bail out the rest of the UK in a crisis, while ministers in the rest of the UK could not be expected to bail out Scotland, if that imposed any burden on their taxpayers.

It seems more likely that Scotland would have to have its own currency, which could be pegged to sterling, and its own central bank as lender of last resort. A separate currency, however, could be damaging to the important Scottish financial sector, which depends on its client base in the rest of the UK for most of its business. With more than 100,000 employees, it is one of the most valued parts of the modern Scottish economy.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/11/north-sea-oil-independent-scotland-economy-revenue

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Independent Scotland should immediately nationalize RBS and Lloyds. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #1
They can't brooklynite Sep 2014 #7
I know, I was being tongue in cheek. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #28
RBS and Llyods are virtually owed by the Tax payer .. Lenomsky Sep 2014 #24
Well, no - BoS is a subsidiary of Lloyds, and Clydesdale said they'd do the same thing muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #46
Does this mean the UK will lose the remainder of the 65B bailout? freshwest Sep 2014 #57
It's complicated, but independence wouldn't mean any automatic loss muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #60
Yeah, TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #77
Are those banks not all being demerged? Lenomsky Sep 2014 #74
I don't know; I would have expected something like that for Lloyds and RBS muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #75
They will move their headquarters to England TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #78
My point (and Lenomsky's, I think) is that splitting the Scottish and rUK business muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #80
Exactly .. Lenomsky Sep 2014 #87
You seem to want to nationalize every microscopic part of the economy... FrodosPet Sep 2014 #31
RBS is fundamentally dysfunctional MFrohike Sep 2014 #43
Something tells me they have the wrong name. jwirr Sep 2014 #2
Royal Bank of Wankers cp Sep 2014 #36
Corporate Blackmail CanonRay Sep 2014 #3
Hmmm... I think they are just thinking rationally about this. Adrahil Sep 2014 #22
The Scots want to keep the pound TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #79
Sounds like power politics... Delver Rootnose Sep 2014 #4
Because China just wants to help the world FrodosPet Sep 2014 #44
China doesn't have the military might to force their will on others yurbud Sep 2014 #67
Tremendous uncertainty re rights to North Sea Oil,membership in NATO/EU/UN, currency, etc. Divernan Sep 2014 #5
Thank you for your detailed post. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #9
The whole devolution of powers to members of the UK is fascinating. Divernan Sep 2014 #12
Would that necessarily be a bad thing though? Massacure Sep 2014 #41
That's different. Each state had the "leeway" to choose. Divernan Sep 2014 #42
I liked the following comment Ghost Dog Sep 2014 #52
Exactly the same reason I vote in my lil town. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #53
Yeah, me too. Ghost Dog Sep 2014 #64
Well, THAT made me curious.... dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #65
I'm a Brit. I exiled myself from Thatcher's Britland Ghost Dog Sep 2014 #69
Hey ghost......thanks for sharing that. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #70
. Ghost Dog Sep 2014 #71
Change does bring uncertainty - a lot of it in this case. Tough to balance the fear of change pampango Sep 2014 #10
I will bet Scotland won't be able to join the EU iandhr Sep 2014 #15
Being banned from EU is not a bad thing, in many respects. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #25
The SNP is very particular that it wants to be in the EU muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #47
Hi Murial.... dixiegrrrrl Sep 2014 #50
Then Scotland will probably just hang out with Norway. Scootaloo Sep 2014 #29
Good point. Norwegians have the freedom of movement, trade and work within Europe that pampango Sep 2014 #37
You better believe it KamaAina Sep 2014 #39
A UK company wants to remain a UK company: film at 11. mathematic Sep 2014 #6
What a complicated situation Stargazer09 Sep 2014 #8
I hope they don't let the nuts and bolts of banking hold them back. toby jo Sep 2014 #11
Scottish vote prompts demands for more independence for Wales, No. Ireland & England as well. Divernan Sep 2014 #13
One word: Iceland. hunter Sep 2014 #14
my first thought was similar... self perservation justabob Sep 2014 #19
Iceland didn't honor its deposit insurance (like the FDIC);cost savers and creditors billions. Divernan Sep 2014 #27
S&P warning re Iceland, Part II Divernan Sep 2014 #30
Ghastly! hunter Sep 2014 #34
Early voting open for corporations. n/t Orsino Sep 2014 #16
It's amazing... sendero Sep 2014 #17
Well. as it wouldn't be you paying the price PaulaFarrell Sep 2014 #20
Better that. sendero Sep 2014 #21
I agree - a lot of pride involved, + promise of more oil profits Divernan Sep 2014 #23
It's not Pride .. Lenomsky Sep 2014 #26
you are in Scotland? grasswire Sep 2014 #33
"sick of being governed by Conservatives and the New Tories aka Labour" Nihil Sep 2014 #48
Ahem .. Lenomsky Sep 2014 #73
"if we fuck up we'll be paying the tab" Nihil Sep 2014 #82
I care not in a general sense .. Lenomsky Sep 2014 #88
Texas, Mississippi, et al can leave any time they desire. lululu Sep 2014 #58
I recall asking a Californian friend about this Ghost Dog Sep 2014 #66
Time for a new bank in Scotland -- People's Bank of Scotland. nt NCjack Sep 2014 #18
the Bushes have deep old connections to RBS grasswire Sep 2014 #32
This is about the bank credit ratings and the need for all banks to keep reserves. amandabeech Sep 2014 #35
There are other issues, as well Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #49
Absolutely. amandabeech Sep 2014 #51
capital is a coward. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #38
Corporate Blackmail? blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #40
Well, imagine Texas decideds to secede. Ya think some corporations headquartered there might Adrahil Sep 2014 #55
I, for one, would celebrate Texas' leaving. ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2014 #68
I don't think it's a buff. Adrahil Sep 2014 #72
I would say that stating their plans now in the event of a Yes vote is a good thing. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #63
Krugman is warning of disaster for an independent Scotland fbc Sep 2014 #45
There will be capital flight. candelista Sep 2014 #54
if Vatican City can use the Euro, why not Scotland? ...nt quadrature Sep 2014 #56
Who can join and when? FrodosPet Sep 2014 #59
The Vatican isn't applying to be a member of the EU muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #61
All kinds of bad consequences if Scotland votes Yes. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #62
Thought this was all made nice when they got "Their Throne"back. Historic NY Sep 2014 #76
the Queen has unleashed her flying monkeys quadrature Sep 2014 #81
When this week is the vote taking place? liberalhistorian Sep 2014 #83
Tomorrow, Sept 18 IDemo Sep 2014 #84
Ah, okay, liberalhistorian Sep 2014 #85
If you want a bit of history on the union, try these: muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #86
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