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Ms. Toad

(34,193 posts)
24. There really isn't a priority within the first amendment.
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 12:48 PM
Oct 2014

Separation of state is a non-legal concept that really means (1) the state may not establish religion and (2) may not prohibit the free expression thereof.

Here, the state arguably did prohibit the free expression of religion.

It is not clear whether he was teaching creationism was.

A year later {after an incident in which a student accused him of making an imprint in the sign of a cross on his arm as part of an experiment}, a senior school official wrote Freshwater that “it has been brought to my attention brought to my attention that you have a Bible out on your desk and that the ‘collage’ on your classroom window includes the 10 Commandments. While you certainly may read your Bible on your own, duty free time . . . it cannot be sitting out on your desk when students are in the classroom and when you are supposed to be engaged in your responsibilities as a teacher.”

When Freshwater kept the Bible in his classroom, officials fired him.


If he was, from my perspective, that would be establishment of religion

The news reports are based on keeping a bible in or on his desk, and having religious books and posters in his classroom. Keeping a personal bible in his desk - or even on his desk, or wearing a turban, yarmulke, cross, etc. - is free expression which may not be prohibited by the state (within the limits defined by case law). Posters on the walls, and religious books, get into a gray area. If other teachers are permitted to put up inspirational posters and books which are unrelated to their subject, there is likely not a difference from a constitutional perspective. Particularly a collage which includes the 10 commandment should survive scrutiny - it has in virtually every other circumstance in which it was included as part of a larger primarily secular display. One of the primary tenets of free speech cases is that if you permit speech you cannot discriminate on the basis of viewpoint.

Thank dawg! giftedgirl77 Oct 2014 #1
+1, gifted girl! Cha Oct 2014 #45
religion should be taught in Sunday school not in public school. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #2
Zing shenmue Oct 2014 #4
It is what my minister dad always said dbackjon Oct 2014 #21
Yep, and if christians don't agree... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2014 #43
Wow! That's amazing. Good! n/t leftyladyfrommo Oct 2014 #3
Christian version of ISIL cosmicone Oct 2014 #5
Not even remotely equivalent. FlatStanley Oct 2014 #22
The classroom is not a "free speech" zone...it's work. CincyDem Oct 2014 #6
he could start his own school rurallib Oct 2014 #8
Unfortunately, there's too much competition in that market already ! n/t CincyDem Oct 2014 #9
They're called Charter Schools FlatStanley Oct 2014 #23
Tell that to Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #10
I'll disagree slightly. Feral Child Oct 2014 #12
There really isn't a priority within the first amendment. Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #24
I can't argue with your post. Feral Child Oct 2014 #35
Those are good points... bluesbassman Oct 2014 #18
LOL. 2+2=5 is exactly the kind of math some of them want to teach. Rozlee Oct 2014 #28
Exactly. I was a Federal employee for years... you're right of free speech Adrahil Oct 2014 #54
Wow, SCOTUS is 2 for 2 for the good today. maddogesq Oct 2014 #7
When the SC refuses to hear a case they do not release the numbers. former9thward Oct 2014 #14
thanks. maddogesq Oct 2014 #44
Wow... SoapBox Oct 2014 #11
I'm very pleased with this decision. Feral Child Oct 2014 #13
I'm actually surprised at this decision. calimary Oct 2014 #15
Same here. Feral Child Oct 2014 #20
Actually, there was a Supreme Court case on the teaching of creationism in public schools Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2014 #38
Fair enough, but the Supreme Court ruled decades ago FOR a woman's right to choose calimary Oct 2014 #39
No big corporate money directly at stake. Orsino Oct 2014 #40
He was not fired for teaching Creationism. former9thward Oct 2014 #16
I'm corrected. Feral Child Oct 2014 #19
As a representative of the State, he appeared to be violating the Establishment Clause RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #31
Reading the actual news story I don't think the Establishement clause was part of it. former9thward Oct 2014 #33
He did a lot more than that, actually. I've followed this case for years. yardwork Oct 2014 #47
His ass should have been fired years ago Botany Oct 2014 #51
What a douche. progressoid Oct 2014 #17
I will second that Gelliebeans Oct 2014 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author trusty elf Oct 2014 #25
I think that Science Teachers should teach Science. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author OldRedneck Oct 2014 #27
I'm confused. Of course, it's the right decision. But what about valerief Oct 2014 #29
The OP is misleading. former9thward Oct 2014 #32
The Ohio 4 to 3 is razor close to me. It should have been unanimous. valerief Oct 2014 #34
No religion in Public Schools HockeyMom Oct 2014 #30
All of it Scairp Oct 2014 #42
Thankfully Gelliebeans Oct 2014 #36
Another Mount Vernon Scairp Oct 2014 #41
It would be nice to finally stop hearing from this guy. mwb970 Oct 2014 #46
Curious if the Repukes are crying victim about this IkeRepublican Oct 2014 #48
If I was looking in the dictionary... HoosierCowboy Oct 2014 #49
Creationism is not a "theory." It's a mythology. True Blue Door Oct 2014 #50
That's the face of a smug jackass. nt wolfie001 Oct 2014 #52
Good! gopiscrap Oct 2014 #53
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