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branford

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49. I'm stating that I'm relying on the actual evidence, not preconceived notions.

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:53 PM

Oct 2014

I haven't convicted or exonerated the officer, unlike you and some others.

I acknowledge that the evidence thus far released (i.e., the recovery of the gun and shell casings and GSR) appear to strongly support the officer's account. If new evidence becomes available, I will gladly reevaluate my positions. Of course, the officer is also presumed innocent.

However, I will not convict the officer based on "institutional racism" or similar concerns. He needs to actually be guilty of the crime of which he is accused. I will also not consider totally irrelevant matters when ascertaining culpability such as the fact that the officer was off-duty and working at a legal and permissible security job.

You are most certainly free to remain as skeptical as you wish. However, don't be surprised if your arguments are not taken seriously if you choose to ignore evidence that does not fit your narrative.

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Private autopsy claims Vonderrit Myers shot while fleeing [View all] KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 OP

I'm betting the DOJ is watching actually but they arent going to prosecute just because some cstanleytech Oct 2014 #1

Was Myers fleeing? If so, from what I've read here and elsewhere, police are not allowed to KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #4

Once someone shoots at you, all bets are off seveneyes Oct 2014 #8

Yes, police can shoot if a suspect is running, provided they are a danger joeglow3 Oct 2014 #12

How about if he or she shot three times at police who didn't identify themselves as police? Wouldn't KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #16

I am not. I just don't judge entire groups. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #20

The officer was wearing his uniform. branford Oct 2014 #30

He was also driving in a marked cruiser Travelman Oct 2014 #78

The officer -- what was his name and badge number again? -- may have been KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #109

First, do you have any evidence to support your "self-defense" scenario? branford Oct 2014 #115

Well, that's why I posted this story. Because the private autopsy at least brings into KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #116

The private autopsy offers little other than proof Myers died from gunshot wounds. branford Oct 2014 #119

Seems to me its entirely possible to be fleeing AND shooting back.. EX500rider Oct 2014 #168

But even if its self defense cstanleytech Oct 2014 #46

I wasnt there so I dont know. cstanleytech Oct 2014 #25

Then you would be wrong. GGJohn Oct 2014 #89

DoJ only prosecutes whistleblowers Man from Pickens Oct 2014 #18

Before or after he fired his "sandwich"? seveneyes Oct 2014 #2

Please read this sentence and consider its implications if true: KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #5

And that makes it an execution! sheshe2 Oct 2014 #10

That I agree with. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #14

If Myers fired at the officer, as the initial forensics appear to indicate, branford Oct 2014 #3

OK. So i guess you don't think Myers was 'begging for his life' before the as-yet KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #6

of course not...and trayvon martin was not afraid of zimmerman either noiretextatique Oct 2014 #24

If what these witnesses are reported to have said is even remotely close to the truth, then it KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #104

strange fruit, indeed noiretextatique Oct 2014 #251

Reconciling the racist past - I'm not sure it can be done. I've lately come to KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #253

+1000 noiretextatique Oct 2014 #254

+1 uponit7771 Oct 2014 #162

"Unnamed pig"... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #37

These pigs have no credibility heaven05 Oct 2014 #54

Forgive me if I disagree. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #55

you're entitled heaven05 Oct 2014 #57

"Nothing you say or think will change that, NOTHING." NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #58

People can say that, but one day they will need a cop Calista241 Oct 2014 #135

Yeah, I know. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #139

Cops, lawyers and garbagemen. delta17 Oct 2014 #223

I usually get one heaven05 Oct 2014 #196

what do your pals do when they know that a fellow officer has violated a citizens civil rights? notadmblnd Oct 2014 #77

I have no idea. What's your point? NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #80

My point is, if they look the other way and refuse to do the right thing notadmblnd Oct 2014 #86

+ a brazillion. If a "good cop" looks the other way or covers for the murderous violent thugs, then kath Oct 2014 #97

and 99.9 percent heaven05 Oct 2014 #140

cops dont behave the same in private drray23 Oct 2014 #79

Obviously they are merely aquainteces of the poster you replied to notadmblnd Oct 2014 #87

Half right... Oktober Oct 2014 #195

That's such a tired old trope. I'll tell you what: I'll believe there are good cops when I see KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #98

True words marym625 Oct 2014 #133

excellent description heaven05 Oct 2014 #141

The SLPD area LEOs are a farce, ask the local people of color what they think of them... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #163

what does "both sides" really mean when one person is armed noiretextatique Oct 2014 #252

you mean the sandwich? noiretextatique Oct 2014 #19

Umm that just means he bought a sandwich it doesnt mean he didnt have a gun. cstanleytech Oct 2014 #32

A sandwich does not leave gunpowder residue on hands, pockets and waistbands. branford Oct 2014 #34

I wonder if they can check the shells for the kids prints? cstanleytech Oct 2014 #43

There will likely be more forensic evidence released. branford Oct 2014 #53

gunpowder residue on hands heaven05 Oct 2014 #59

No whats not washing is your posting the same thing.......your opinion. cstanleytech Oct 2014 #81

you're good heaven05 Oct 2014 #83

I am defending the science and science doesnt support conspiracy theories. cstanleytech Oct 2014 #99

the evidence is everywhere heaven05 Oct 2014 #100

" the evidence is everywhere" Ya and now your sounding like my cstanleytech Oct 2014 #105

god bless america heaven05 Oct 2014 #136

You'll get nowhere, heaven05 Feral Child Oct 2014 #182

interesting take heaven05 Oct 2014 #188

So, yeah Feral Child Oct 2014 #201

You won't get very far with personal attacks either. delta17 Oct 2014 #225

Feel free to alert on what you feel is a personal attack. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #240

I would rather say it to you directly. delta17 Oct 2014 #241

there was no reason to alert on my post. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #242

I did mistake you for the other poster. delta17 Oct 2014 #243

thanks for admitting your mistake notadmblnd Oct 2014 #244

Patronizing bull shit. Feral Child Oct 2014 #245

I don't see any apologists. delta17 Oct 2014 #248

But I do decide who Feral Child Oct 2014 #249

Adios. delta17 Oct 2014 #250

Your standard for 'good' is just expecting a bare minimum of facts sans speculation or bias? Oktober Oct 2014 #197

yep heaven05 Oct 2014 #200

That's proving a negative and has no place in civilized law... Oktober Oct 2014 #203

these are heaven05 Oct 2014 #205

You can only win if you play :) Ha-ha, best pitch I've ever heard for a sucker bet yet! (If KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #106

No offense taken and yes I do play and if I win I win cstanleytech Oct 2014 #108

As a side note, I have to say that the state of California is really behaving poorly, constantly KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #112

The Missouri State Patrol Travelman Oct 2014 #84

that's silly heaven05 Oct 2014 #88

Of course it's silly Travelman Oct 2014 #93

I would have to see it for myself heaven05 Oct 2014 #101

That is a damned good question and it goes to what the philosopher of science Karl Popper KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #107

But it WASN'T the St. Louis City PD. Travelman Oct 2014 #110

All well and good. I did not know before now that it was the state crime lab that KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #114

The GSR was not only on Myers hands, but also his shirt, front and back pockets and waistband. branford Oct 2014 #117

So I take it then that you don't believe the witnesses who say Myers was KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #121

Who are these alleged witnesses, and what is the basis for their allegations? branford Oct 2014 #125

The first I heard about the 'pleading for his life' witnesses was when I read KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #126

Branford gave the link that I was going to Travelman Oct 2014 #120

I believe we have reached an unbridgeable chasm, my friend. When you characterize KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #123

Now, now, stop all the reasonableness this instant! EX500rider Oct 2014 #171

you're wasting heaven05 Oct 2014 #60

p-pls be trolling n/t PorridgeGun Oct 2014 #95

BAMB!!!!! I've not read this before... THANK YOU!! Sandwhich MISTAKIN for a gun uponit7771 Oct 2014 #164

I will trust multiple corroborating witnesses before I trust the lone killer. /nt Ash_F Oct 2014 #151

Could you kindly identify these "multiple corroborating witnesses," branford Oct 2014 #153

I will trust the attorney's word that they have witnesses over the killer. /nt Ash_F Oct 2014 #158

I'll take that as a "no." branford Oct 2014 #160

"I will trust the attorney's word" EX500rider Oct 2014 #172

Yes. Ash_F Oct 2014 #178

"Cops lie." EX500rider Oct 2014 #180

Keep up the fight keyboard warrior Ash_F Oct 2014 #181

You seem to be behind your keyboard... EX500rider Oct 2014 #183

Sure. /nt Ash_F Oct 2014 #184

LOL! Travelman Oct 2014 #192

yeah that sandwich heaven05 Oct 2014 #7

So, you think all the evidence was staged and planted? joeglow3 Oct 2014 #9

"All the evidence" as reported by news media citing police sources? Would you like KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #13

So, that is a yes. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #15

Good, after you remit funds to my PayPal account, I'll email you title KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #17

Right after I find the fake moon landing cite. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #22

no...it is a HELL YES noiretextatique Oct 2014 #21

I saw the tape. And I am far from the only one who thinks it shows NOTHING joeglow3 Oct 2014 #23

of course you don't noiretextatique Oct 2014 #26

This independent autopsy showed gunpowder on his hands joeglow3 Oct 2014 #28

i don't know: you tell me what the police want you to think noiretextatique Oct 2014 #31

Why are you discussing this? Your mind is made up. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #33

and so is YOURS, so stop pretending you are objective noiretextatique Oct 2014 #41

the person you are responding to heaven05 Oct 2014 #51

Based on what? joeglow3 Oct 2014 #67

What is the basis for your belief that the officer executed Myers after he was no longer a threat? branford Oct 2014 #73

The autopsy in this very thread gives support to that scenario joeglow3 Oct 2014 #74

The autopsy does not prove or disprove the execution scenario. branford Oct 2014 #76

I never said it was fact. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #82

please...and you claim to be objective noiretextatique Oct 2014 #45

So, there is no scenario where the policy officer acted in good faith? joeglow3 Oct 2014 #65

How long did it take heaven05 Oct 2014 #69

I never said thug joeglow3 Oct 2014 #70

Cops would never plant gunpowder on anyone.... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #157

GSR is nothing like planting drugs or even a gun. branford Oct 2014 #161

We often see nothing when we desire to see nothing. LanternWaste Oct 2014 #156

He bought a sandwich 20 minutes before the shooting, GGJohn Oct 2014 #92

Nope, just a bit of it and that's bad enough... the kid did buy a sandwhich uponit7771 Oct 2014 #165

I hope for something larger and better, a revolution that transforms society so that KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #11

I agree heaven05 Oct 2014 #38

This overt oppression by police is what lead to the original Black Panther Party in Oakland brush Oct 2014 #90

last sentence heaven05 Oct 2014 #96

Are you stating that you consider the officer guilty regardless of the evidence? branford Oct 2014 #27

Read above. People are claiming it was all staged. joeglow3 Oct 2014 #29

are you stating he is innocent, regardless of evidence? noiretextatique Oct 2014 #36

Yes people have the right to be skeptical... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #42

lately it seems heaven05 Oct 2014 #61

Really? EX500rider Oct 2014 #174

really heaven05 Oct 2014 #207

I'm stating that I'm relying on the actual evidence, not preconceived notions. branford Oct 2014 #49

Evidence and empirical facts Travelman Oct 2014 #91

I said what I said heaven05 Oct 2014 #40

You can certainly believe it was murder. branford Oct 2014 #50

I am disappointed in your attitude of supporting the police violence against rhett o rick Oct 2014 #102

Are you really accusing me of "supporting police violence against the black community?" branford Oct 2014 #113

You seem to be trying very hard to exonerate the policeman and not looking for "the truth". rhett o rick Oct 2014 #118

The evidence does not support that claim in the least Travelman Oct 2014 #122

What eye witnesses? branford Oct 2014 #124

Of course we all want justice. Equal justice. But we don't have equal justice today. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #134

You claim to support due process, but then appear to dismiss any evidence branford Oct 2014 #137

Of course I want to see justice prevail, but IMO it rarely happens in cases involving police rhett o rick Oct 2014 #143

Emptying a magazine within a couple of seconds during a lethal gunfight branford Oct 2014 #144

I am sorry but I find your rationalizations for police shooting victims so many times as rhett o rick Oct 2014 #148

You're making unsubstantiated conclusory statements about tactical firearm situations. branford Oct 2014 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Oct 2014 #150

"It likely indicates that the officer was firing in a panic" EX500rider Oct 2014 #175

How very sad that we have gotten to the point where we can rationalize and normalize the killing of rhett o rick Oct 2014 #176

I didn't "rationalize" anything. EX500rider Oct 2014 #179

Count how fast the shots happen XemaSab Oct 2014 #145

So is your point that the shots happen so fast the officer can't control it? rhett o rick Oct 2014 #146

The present evidence doesn't support this strange scenario you are pushing. GGJohn Oct 2014 #127

In a criminal trial, it's guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." branford Oct 2014 #129

Thank you for the correction. GGJohn Oct 2014 #130

It takes a lot to upset me, particularly on an anonymous board. branford Oct 2014 #131

Thank you for your service to our justice system. GGJohn Oct 2014 #132

really? heaven05 Oct 2014 #142

Unarmed, chervilant Oct 2014 #35

so do i...and i am sick of the pollyannish/naive attitude of some white people noiretextatique Oct 2014 #39

Yes, indeed. chervilant Oct 2014 #44

and they pull out this "i'm objective" bullshit every single time noiretextatique Oct 2014 #47

Or, the classic "I'm not a racist, but" statement... chervilant Oct 2014 #246

All that you heaven05 Oct 2014 #48

Wow, the hate, it's truly frightening. GGJohn Oct 2014 #128

My soon-to-be-ex-boss is an unapologetic racist. chervilant Oct 2014 #247

+1 uponit7771 Oct 2014 #166

For those of you here who need a reminder about the rules here on the DU. cstanleytech Oct 2014 #52

Good point CST... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #56

state sanctioned murder heaven05 Oct 2014 #64

As I believed we established in a different sub-thread... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #68

I actually cotton more to Sci-Fi writer Phillip K. Dick's theory that KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #103

a private autopsy heaven05 Oct 2014 #62

Nope. nt cstanleytech Oct 2014 #63

why the implied threat? heaven05 Oct 2014 #66

Not a threat, a reminder that even the DU has rules. nt cstanleytech Oct 2014 #71

The autopsy reveals very little dispositive information. branford Oct 2014 #72

so it would heaven05 Oct 2014 #75

Forensic evidence can certainly be challenged. branford Oct 2014 #85

I wish your first point was true heaven05 Oct 2014 #94

An older lawyer once gave me the following COLGATE4 Oct 2014 #111

but, but, but heaven05 Oct 2014 #138

My pleasure. COLGATE4 Oct 2014 #152

You know, when people resort to calling me names, I take it as a compliment notadmblnd Oct 2014 #209

I also take heaven05 Oct 2014 #210

The thing is, none of us know the truth notadmblnd Oct 2014 #214

Oink! branford Oct 2014 #147

if true heaven05 Oct 2014 #154

I'm well aware of, and strongly oppose, disparities in the criminal justice system, branford Oct 2014 #155

Reasonable answer heaven05 Oct 2014 #167

If the officer effectively executed Myers after he was clearly neutralized, branford Oct 2014 #218

Oh, the poor oppressed police. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #159

thank you heaven05 Oct 2014 #170

I know that one has to pay for justice. I know that it's a racket for the Courts notadmblnd Oct 2014 #177

so true heaven05 Oct 2014 #187

You or anyone can remain as skeptical as you wish. branford Oct 2014 #173

Well said .......................... cstanleytech Oct 2014 #186

DU members are not required to be knowledgeable of the actual law in order to form an opinion, notadmblnd Oct 2014 #189

ouch! heaven05 Oct 2014 #191

I've asked this time and time again, branford Oct 2014 #204

And many have asked time and time again: What is the name of the cop that killed the young man? notadmblnd Oct 2014 #206

And the officer's name is evidence of what exactly? branford Oct 2014 #212

And the witnesses names are evidence of what? notadmblnd Oct 2014 #216

Let's talk about the witness. branford Oct 2014 #219

Oh, so you have no answers to my questions. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #221

No, lets talk about the cop... the Witness's didn't kill anyone... Also, ANYONE who paid even uponit7771 Oct 2014 #226

OK, we'll not talk about the uprightness of SLPD area LEOs... that WOULD be crazy talk... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #169

If that makes you happy by all means just try to avoid any nutjob conspiracy theories and you cstanleytech Oct 2014 #185

well don't let heaven05 Oct 2014 #193

There is such a thing as political capital... Oktober Oct 2014 #190

Hunh? Care to elaborate? KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #230

Reading this, it sounds like he was down when the last shot was fired. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #194

if the heaven05 Oct 2014 #198

found this down thread. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #199

I won't take the bet heaven05 Oct 2014 #202

We've discussed this alleged witness numerous times. branford Oct 2014 #208

You must have had a long day in court. Your reading comprehension seems to be a little off notadmblnd Oct 2014 #211

You assume far too much. branford Oct 2014 #215

Seriously, do you really believe what you just wrote? notadmblnd Oct 2014 #217

You really have very little conception of gunfight. branford Oct 2014 #220

No, no, no that is not what you said. C'mon a good attorney knows how and very deliberately notadmblnd Oct 2014 #222

Yeap, a bullet to the head the person would be more likely dead... Legs first uponit7771 Oct 2014 #224

and the guy here trying to defend them should be ashamed of himself. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #227

There's something wrong with that WHOLE areas LEOs, there was a LEO from OUT OF TOWN that had . uponit7771 Oct 2014 #229

Yeah there's something wrong with them in ST Louis and Ferguson and who knows what other notadmblnd Oct 2014 #231

I am not an expert so I will give you my layperson's understanding and perhaps KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #232

I hope so too. Because if these extra judicial, excessive use of force killings don't stop- notadmblnd Oct 2014 #233

The entire social contract is fraying at the edges and, as it does, the institutions KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #234

Well IMO, they need to step it up here. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #235

Agreed 1000%. The last couple months has been like watching a slow-motion KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #236

Only the intentionally obtuse could believe that it was fair or honest. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #237

No idea. Well, after the past couple months, St. Louis County is starting to look almost KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #238

I agree. notadmblnd Oct 2014 #239

you started an excellent heaven05 Oct 2014 #213

Thank you. I am not going to urge anyone to 'stay calm' or 'be reasonable' in these circumstances. I KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #228