Latest Breaking News

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)

173. The DoJ prosecutes civil rights violations, not murder and\or its lesser variations. It's entirely

Sun Nov 2, 2014, 02:16 AM

Nov 2014

possible that Wilson murdered Brown without meeting the standard of violating his civil rights. IANAL, so the lawyers can debate that.

So, back to your question. Racism or lack of probable cause are not the only two possible explanations for no indictments. The GJ could refuse to return an indictment not because of racism but because McCulloch has a distinct conflict of interest. That is, he must work with local law enforcement after the MB case has been disposed of, thus can ill afford to alienate law enforcement. So the GJ might refuse to indict, not because of racism but because McCulloch's conflict of interest throws the case. Call it the institutional perogative.

IOW, you're presenting me with a false choice to try to paint me into a corner. And I do not accept the parameters of the choice as you present it. I'm glad you are also having fun on DU.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

241 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Federal civil rights charges unlikely against police officer in Ferguson shooting [View all] philosslayer Oct 2014 OP

Yeah, no evidence Kelvin Mace Oct 2014 #1

The problem with Federal Civil Rights Charges is ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #15

Yes alot of witnesses that the officer shot the kid but that doesnt mean that the cstanleytech Oct 2014 #17

Because murder is not a Federal crime Recursion Nov 2014 #236

I think it would help calm things if Holder came out and said the same quote... Oktober Oct 2014 #2

Um, this one won't be going 'quietly away.' - nt KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #11

agreed nt BootinUp Oct 2014 #12

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #16

As usual, your rush to take offense... Oktober Nov 2014 #36

Actually, your repeated use of pronouns with unclear antecedents KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #59

excellent heaven05 Nov 2014 #63

Rush rush rush... Oktober Nov 2014 #65

You would have a point... Oktober Nov 2014 #85

I don't think he could do that legally Travelman Nov 2014 #81

Good point... Oktober Nov 2014 #83

No surprise. It's a hard rap to make stick. malthaussen Oct 2014 #3

You will be lucky if you get a manslaughter conviction I suspect. nt cstanleytech Oct 2014 #18

How do you figure it's 1st? You think Wilson planned this out beforehand? (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #237

Of course not.."These aren't the days of Civil Liberty you are looking for Move along, move along" diabeticman Oct 2014 #4

and they won't let this be announced until after the election....that was the point in the delay! VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #5

What could the authorities possibly know that we don't seveneyes Oct 2014 #6

those dont matter Agalbraith Oct 2014 #19

Too much sugar tonight... MrMickeysMom Oct 2014 #21

Have you read some of the responses on this thread? AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #120

Should the responses on this thread be unexpected after what has been reported? MrMickeysMom Nov 2014 #146

So.....yeah AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #148

So, yeah� I don't agree with that statement at all... MrMickeysMom Nov 2014 #149

White guilt? blackspade Oct 2014 #24

If the evidence doesn't support it... Oktober Nov 2014 #38

Now you are being disingenuous. blackspade Nov 2014 #40

Lots of people, civilian and LE, have been in a situation where they killed someone with a firearm.. Oktober Nov 2014 #43

Sigh. blackspade Nov 2014 #52

thank you heaven05 Nov 2014 #61

Your welcome! blackspade Nov 2014 #154

Some people are blind to that fact. Gemini Cat Nov 2014 #66

Indeed. blackspade Nov 2014 #155

What "facts" heaven05 Nov 2014 #49

the facts that the grand jury has Agalbraith Nov 2014 #72

Civil rights charges are NOT heaven05 Nov 2014 #73

I know civil are not murder charges Agalbraith Nov 2014 #75

thanks heaven05 Nov 2014 #95

Virtually no one has found Wilson "not guilty." branford Nov 2014 #106

some people heaven05 Nov 2014 #109

You're certainly entitled to believe Wilson is a murderer, branford Nov 2014 #113

I know I'm heaven05 Nov 2014 #115

WOW AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #119

I would apply the heaven05 Nov 2014 #123

No I have not found him not guilty. Agalbraith Nov 2014 #118

You're right, civil rights charges are not murder charges. branford Nov 2014 #82

"general claims heaven05 Nov 2014 #91

Copy and paste is a mother sometimes. Agalbraith Nov 2014 #96

I stand by that heaven05 Nov 2014 #98

The area is racist, Ferguson is racist, the police are racist, therefore, the grand jury is racist. Agalbraith Nov 2014 #99

I stand by what I said heaven05 Nov 2014 #100

Answer the question Agalbraith Nov 2014 #101

black people can't be racist heaven05 Nov 2014 #112

black people can't be racist -- amazing. Agalbraith Nov 2014 #117

relegate where ever you please heaven05 Nov 2014 #121

This is like watching a prize fighter AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #122

hopefully he's nothing but a troll Agalbraith Nov 2014 #126

been here much longer than you heaven05 Nov 2014 #130

I dont care how long you've been anywhere Agalbraith Nov 2014 #134

extremely frustrated and maturity is lacking heaven05 Nov 2014 #136

Black people CANNOT be racist Agalbraith Nov 2014 #140

you're flirting heaven05 Nov 2014 #141

thank you heaven05 Nov 2014 #131

you have it backwards Agalbraith Nov 2014 #135

right heaven05 Nov 2014 #137

ask him. He'll tell you as much Agalbraith Nov 2014 #138

you are insufficiently heaven05 Nov 2014 #139

Black people CANNOT be racist Agalbraith Nov 2014 #142

Seriously? You actually believe that? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #180

In experiencing certain realities of this culture heaven05 Nov 2014 #182

It's not a comparison of numbers to see who has the most racists per capita... Oktober Nov 2014 #191

There are no heaven05 Nov 2014 #193

Anything to rationalize right? Oktober Nov 2014 #194

Not when heaven05 Nov 2014 #195

So it's not just people of the appropriate skin pigmentation.. Oktober Nov 2014 #202

I'm not trying to bait you at all... NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #196

see response #195 heaven05 Nov 2014 #197

I read it. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #198

well...... heaven05 Nov 2014 #199

Fair enough. We're obviously not going to agree on the matter. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #200

From a popular definition of racism Recursion Nov 2014 #238

bingo...another truth people like to ignore and pretend the system works noiretextatique Nov 2014 #203

Bravo... Oktober Nov 2014 #108

The decision to file civil rights charges will ultimately be made by AG Holder, branford Nov 2014 #102

Yes heaven05 Nov 2014 #105

I have not formed an opinion as to Wilson's guilt or innocence. branford Nov 2014 #110

I object heaven05 Nov 2014 #114

that's not true and you know it AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #125

??? heaven05 Nov 2014 #127

Can you please point me to the codified AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #129

One standard heaven05 Nov 2014 #132

this fact has been studied endlessly noiretextatique Nov 2014 #205

it is not codified in law, but in practice noiretextatique Nov 2014 #204

+ 1000 heaven05 Nov 2014 #210

So just your opinion AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #221

yeah...my opinion and a few centuries of legal research noiretextatique Nov 2014 #222

Do you read what you write ? Oktober Nov 2014 #111

legal standard?! noiretextatique Nov 2014 #224

Standing ovation AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #124

here's a fact: when are police ever indicted, let alone convicted? noiretextatique Nov 2014 #201

All the time. Simply Google "police officer guilty," branford Nov 2014 #206

I did heaven05 Nov 2014 #212

Try performing you search under Google News, and advance a few pages or narrow your search. branford Nov 2014 #214

oh please heaven05 Nov 2014 #216

A black commits a violent crime against a white because of the color of their skin, branford Nov 2014 #223

with the access heaven05 Nov 2014 #225

By many definitions that's not "racist" per se, no Recursion Nov 2014 #239

How about we use the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of racism branford Nov 2014 #240

My definition is from Cazenave, and is very widely understood in political and sociological contexts Recursion Nov 2014 #241

more often then you would think Agalbraith Nov 2014 #207

there have been several beatings and murders of BLACK people noiretextatique Nov 2014 #208

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #209

they goad and bait heaven05 Nov 2014 #211

they are advocates....i see them for who they are noiretextatique Nov 2014 #218

You posed a question, but do not like the answer. branford Nov 2014 #213

I just realized this BS you write heaven05 Nov 2014 #215

Huh? Hiding behind the law? branford Nov 2014 #217

it means: white people have hid behind the law for centuries noiretextatique Nov 2014 #219

Are President Obama and AG Holder also "hiding behind the law" if they don't file branford Nov 2014 #220

oh boy! heaven05 Nov 2014 #227

+1000 heaven05 Nov 2014 #226

Great post. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #228

the 'mob' heaven05 Nov 2014 #230

I have sycophants? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #235

what, to you heaven05 Nov 2014 #55

Based on the evidence released, I would have to agree with them. FLPanhandle Oct 2014 #7

That was the problem with the original Rodney King verdict too. 7962 Oct 2014 #13

Unacceptable� There is no justice here MrMickeysMom Oct 2014 #8

"Justice" is not defined as an end result of which you approve. branford Oct 2014 #10

You mean to say... MrMickeysMom Oct 2014 #20

For a state prosecution, the focus is probably on the forensic evidence. branford Oct 2014 #26

Well said, I just wish more here would read your posts rather than automatically judge the officer cstanleytech Oct 2014 #29

"A civil rights prosecution requires that the government not only essentially prove amandabeech Oct 2014 #32

I'm not a legal expert, but I don't interpret what's been already judged here as "unreliable"... MrMickeysMom Oct 2014 #33

You need only Google eyewitness testimony for ample articles on its unreliability. branford Nov 2014 #35

what about heaven05 Nov 2014 #53

You clearly only skimmed my post and may quite a few assumptions yourself. branford Nov 2014 #76

yeah, yeah, yeah heaven05 Nov 2014 #46

Good lord AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #77

it figures heaven05 Nov 2014 #87

I feel incredible pain and sorrow AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #89

right heaven05 Nov 2014 #93

You have no interest in rational AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #97

That was leaked information heaven05 Nov 2014 #50

You know that it's actually racist to assume that only the "correct" makeup of races on the GJ Oktober Nov 2014 #54

Please! heaven05 Nov 2014 #56

I just wanted you to know... Oktober Nov 2014 #57

call me racist heaven05 Nov 2014 #60

Ahh, it's rare but satisfying... Oktober Nov 2014 #64

no closed mind heaven05 Nov 2014 #67

When you say that nothing can change your mind... Oktober Nov 2014 #68

People on here heaven05 Nov 2014 #69

Enjoy... and I hope you'll start to think about how you participate in that culture... Oktober Nov 2014 #71

The fact that you label him AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #78

White wash. jwirr Oct 2014 #9

Buck-buck-BRAWWWWK! KamaAina Oct 2014 #14

Sometimes legal reality is politically inconvenient. True Blue Door Oct 2014 #22

A high threshold.... blackspade Oct 2014 #23

Beyond any reasonable doubt AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #79

That is at trial. blackspade Nov 2014 #103

It is a high bar for everyone AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #104

You are welcome to your illusions about the justice system. blackspade Nov 2014 #107

That's funny AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #116

yeah, right... blackspade Nov 2014 #143

yeah.......right AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #144

Just can't let it go, huh. blackspade Nov 2014 #145

There is only one standard AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #147

Then you live is a dream world. blackspade Nov 2014 #150

Not all attorneys are created equal. branford Nov 2014 #152

And none of this in any way refutes my post. blackspade Nov 2014 #153

Although I disagree with much of your class and race analysis concerning the justice system, branford Nov 2014 #158

That is a grand question... blackspade Nov 2014 #161

If you have no major issues with fundamentals of western jurisprudence, branford Nov 2014 #169

I don't agree on several of your points... blackspade Nov 2014 #174

As an aside, I'm a big proponent of officers with cameras. branford Nov 2014 #175

I was totally with you until your third paragraph. blackspade Nov 2014 #177

My point was that what constitutes a undoubtedly lawful shooting, branford Nov 2014 #178

Could you please try and argue AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #160

You have to be joking. blackspade Nov 2014 #162

Sigh AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #163

Heh. That made me laugh. blackspade Nov 2014 #167

what does it take? heaven05 Oct 2014 #25

It takes evidence AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #80

Have fun with the riots Ferguson and St. Louis. n/t DRoseDARs Oct 2014 #27

You would think though that it would lead to less riots since its the DOJ cstanleytech Oct 2014 #28

Just out of curiosity, did you support the Rodney King uprising in Los Angeles after KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #34

Oh I totally disagreed with the rioting then as now. I also disagreed with the verdict as the cstanleytech Nov 2014 #37

Well, it was arguably the 'rioting' that you oppose that compelled the KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #41

" Denny's beating vanish into the dustbin of history." Wrong beating. cstanleytech Nov 2014 #42

yeah, yeah yeah heaven05 Nov 2014 #45

+1 I've noticed that trend. Gemini Cat Nov 2014 #70

Those pretty little words AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #128

So I take it then that you have full faith and confidence in the system as represented by KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #164

I'll put it this way AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #165

Their being "under a freaking microscope" did not prevent DA McCulloch KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #168

Yes.... AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #170

I did answer it. It's immaterial what the evidence and forensics say, so long as KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #171

Yes or no AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #172

The DoJ prosecutes civil rights violations, not murder and\or its lesser variations. It's entirely KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #173

Got it AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #176

The evidence doesn't matter? What matters is who presents it? Oktober Nov 2014 #179

The prosecutor in this case must avoid not only a conflict of KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #187

Seems like you are trying to prove a negative... Oktober Nov 2014 #188

I love the way you deflect and evade the question: do you have KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #189

It's an accepted legal standard... Oktober Nov 2014 #190

As I said earlier upthread, you and I are not going to convince one another about KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #192

Oops, mis-spoke in my original. Thanks for the annotation. I would though remind you that George KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #62

No, I never said Bush planned anything I said I think the DOJ was probably cstanleytech Nov 2014 #84

your words, slick heaven05 Nov 2014 #47

Umm I am one of the "poor" . cstanleytech Nov 2014 #86

then you heaven05 Nov 2014 #88

Gee I didnt know I had to be both poor and black to have an opinion. cstanleytech Nov 2014 #90

you are entitled to have heaven05 Nov 2014 #94

C'mon Phlem Oct 2014 #30

The entire GOVERNMENT there is violating the People's Civil Rights.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #31

Well maybe this will be what will goad the people to get involved in their government then and cstanleytech Nov 2014 #39

right heaven05 Nov 2014 #48

They've busted almost everybody.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #156

I just checked and according to cstanleytech Nov 2014 #157

Amazing how lax those laws are,...until you consider Republicans. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #159

True I mean they have gerrymandered the hell out of alot of the country but cstanleytech Nov 2014 #166

Actually, the question is does having a criminal record only prevent you from running as a Democrat? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #186

come on people heaven05 Nov 2014 #44

If the legacy of Michael Brown's extra-judicial execution is to lead to a new KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #74

We'll see what turnout is like in Ferguson. LuvLoogie Nov 2014 #151

I believe heaven05 Nov 2014 #184

What is a copologist? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #229

It's my neologism for a 'cop apologist'. I'm an old fart and don't KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #231

Wilson will get his eventually JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #181

Yeah heaven05 Nov 2014 #183

Don't let it get you down JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #185

That's because they are putting all their efforts into going after Zimmerman. Township75 Nov 2014 #51

we knew that would be the decision Heather MC Nov 2014 #58

Well of course as to go after him they would have had to be able to prove cstanleytech Nov 2014 #92

Just "look ahead" and stop getting "all sanctimonious" Corruption Inc Nov 2014 #133

when I was in high school heaven05 Nov 2014 #232

breaking marcusqueen Nov 2014 #233

yep +1000 heaven05 Nov 2014 #234