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MADem

(135,425 posts)

54. We aren't giving away OIL to them. Maduro signed a deal with them to pay them in cheap OIL.

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:38 PM

Nov 2014

We gave them paper, promissory notes, and that's ALL we gave them. We traded them paper for crap, in essence. We kept their people working, and we played with their plastic shit. It's not the same dynamic at all. Maduro has given away the store--the oil that is the engine of their economy.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Increasingly-Desperate-Venezuela-Makes-Oil-for-Cash-Deal-With-China.html

I suppose you equate standing in line waiting for the "Apple store" to open to sell their new version of shit the same as .... this?

\

I had an economics professor (who was with the IMF for a time) who used to joke that if you needed more money, you just printed more. It's a simplistic solution, and it can work if someone is trying to gouge you, but Maduro has taken it sixty steps too far--which is why inflation in VZ is at 63 percent.

There's no excuse for the mismanagement in VZ. It wasn't great when Chavez was in fair health and running the show, but it wasn't getting worse. Under Maduro, the nation's birthright has been squandered. They are now in extremis.

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Highlight:

Traders Are 'Scared As Hell' Of What's Happening In Venezuela [View all] FLPanhandle Nov 2014 OP

VZ threads just aren't the same without EFerrari KamaAina Nov 2014 #1

Fully agree! RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #2

I have notified her via Facebook KamaAina Nov 2014 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author IkeRepublican Nov 2014 #4

Army coup? Does Diosdado Cabello still have friends in uniform? MADem Nov 2014 #5

You talking about 'big hair' or whoever it was? I still keep scratching my head over this thing. freshwest Nov 2014 #28

"this may all be media spin"--since the VZ gov controls the media, it's not spin wordpix Nov 2014 #33

"God Given" Hair! MADem Nov 2014 #43

MADem - did you live in VZ at one time? Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #65

My grandfather did. MADem Nov 2014 #70

I marked it off my vacation list. Thanks! Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #88

About that food supply thing.. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #46

"The USA gov'ts have invaded damn near every So. American country" EX500rider Nov 2014 #102

You are correct.....i meant to say.... dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #109

I've seen this movie before Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #92

And if there is a capital strike, christx30 Nov 2014 #105

How much do you know about the northern South American countries? Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #113

"since a dark-skinned man (Chavez) had the gall to be elected president" ? EX500rider Nov 2014 #133

Duh, I know that the U.S. deals with dark-skinned politicians Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #135

Government currency laws are the problem hack89 Nov 2014 #116

And the price controls... EX500rider Nov 2014 #134

Saudi Arabia/OPEC deflating oil price to compete with natural gas industry(fracking) Divernan Nov 2014 #6

That stuff about jobs from the pipeline is a bunch of malarky. Someone built a pipeling through our jwirr Nov 2014 #10

So what would be the difference with any other building project? 7962 Nov 2014 #11

The difference is that leak I mentioned. Those other projects do not threaten our natural resources. jwirr Nov 2014 #13

Well, we've already seen railcars spilling or exploding. Tankers wouldnt be much safer. 7962 Nov 2014 #14

Fairly safe is not good enough over the aquifer. Why don't they go around the aquifer? If they go jwirr Nov 2014 #15

sounds like a good idea, so maybe someone should present a bill specifying that 7962 Nov 2014 #16

No, we might as well tell the Canadian fools to Darb Nov 2014 #125

KSA has cut oil output. what has VZ done? ...nt quadrature Nov 2014 #27

Okay so what is going on here in laymens terms? I have read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein jwirr Nov 2014 #7

In layman's terms: Chavez and Maduro fucked up VZ. nt Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #9

Yes, but the CIA/USA will be blamed even by many right here on DU! 7962 Nov 2014 #12

Well, bu$h certainly didn't help things Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #25

That was a LONG time ago and has little bearing on the current farce. 7962 Nov 2014 #29

There is nothing wrong in Venezuela. harun Nov 2014 #41

You forgot the sarcasm thingy. Some folks might actually think you're SERIOUS! 7962 Nov 2014 #44

I am serious harun Nov 2014 #53

I'm quite sure the citizens of VN would call your assertation bullshit. GGJohn Nov 2014 #55

The greedy pigs might harun Nov 2014 #57

Stop it! I cant stop laughing! "Viva la Revolution" & pass the leaves! HAHAHAAHA! 7962 Nov 2014 #60

Ideology trumps everything. Let them eat speeches. Throd Nov 2014 #61

Now THATS a darn good saying. I'm gonna remember that. Thanks. 7962 Nov 2014 #62

I think you need some re-education, Comrade. delta17 Nov 2014 #89

Looks like you've had some education yourself. harun Nov 2014 #115

Stop it, GGJohn Nov 2014 #73

And you are right. We all know it. The sociopaths among us try to keep the truth buried Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #59

Yes some do try to keep the truth buried.. EX500rider Nov 2014 #67

God, you too? GGJohn Nov 2014 #74

Yes. Zorra Nov 2014 #104

So if you don't think Venezuela is some kind of paradise you're a "sociopath"? Really? EX500rider Nov 2014 #130

Who are you calling a "capitalist pig?" nt MADem Nov 2014 #71

Look for the IMF to be flying in soon as the dust settles dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #21

This, exactly ... brett_jv Nov 2014 #23

Austerity can't be any worse then it is right now hack89 Nov 2014 #32

Shortages are something you can do something about. Those loans from the IMF make your country jwirr Nov 2014 #35

The government is spending a lot more money than it brings in hack89 Nov 2014 #38

You are right that neither way is going to make much difference. However we have seen the IMF in jwirr Nov 2014 #40

I use austerity in its generic sense hack89 Nov 2014 #42

Well... Adrahil Nov 2014 #117

They mortgaged their future to China, too. They owe China tens and tens of BILLIONS.... MADem Nov 2014 #45

WE owe China tens and tens of BILLIONS.... dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #48

We can still pay our bills and meet our obligations hack89 Nov 2014 #52

We aren't giving away OIL to them. Maduro signed a deal with them to pay them in cheap OIL. MADem Nov 2014 #54

Okay now I see the connection. Let them fight it out - don't really care who wins as long as you jwirr Nov 2014 #34

Interesting that some of the damning evidence comes from Stratfor RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #8

Very interesting ozone_man Nov 2014 #90

Yes. What's sad is that our propaganda frequently becomes self-fulfilling RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #91

Capitalists are still bitter over Chavez, eh? Odin2005 Nov 2014 #17

It's the Venezuelans who should be bitter. Throd Nov 2014 #18

Why? hack89 Nov 2014 #19

Of course, it's been 'mismanaged' ... I mean really, how ELSE could a 'Leftist' system be? brett_jv Nov 2014 #24

Frankly, I don't think the US cares one iota about Venezuela FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #30

Actually socialism and mismanagement do not go hand in hand hack89 Nov 2014 #31

I'd say that empty shelves and 60+% inflation.... Adrahil Nov 2014 #20

Absolutely. I doubt that any ideology is needed to produce anger under those situations. jwirr Nov 2014 #36

Venezuela has certainly been an enlightening experiment in non-capitalism (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #96

A frightened bond trader daleo Nov 2014 #22

Frightened bond traders ROCK Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #26

Most of the posts in this thread read like something from FreeRepublic. candelista Nov 2014 #37

Pointing out that VZ is poorly managed and has wrecked its economy hack89 Nov 2014 #39

We have a lot of low-information posters here Bragi Nov 2014 #47

Thank GOD we have you here to save us from ourselves! 7962 Nov 2014 #63

If you could, please point me to the information that will help me understand how VZ doesn't have hughee99 Nov 2014 #131

Thanks, but I'll pass on that nt Bragi Nov 2014 #136

Oh, please. We're supposed to "support" this kind of shit? Get real. MADem Nov 2014 #49

Well, I tried to say it nicely, but DAMN that was well done!! nt 7962 Nov 2014 #64

Thank you. MADem Nov 2014 #66

Looks like you scared them all off. No replies. But then, what could they SAY? nt 7962 Nov 2014 #110

Pointing out the truth about VN is a RW talking point? GGJohn Nov 2014 #50

I think there should be a 5000 post minimum before someone can challenge another's presence. nt Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #56

It's been that way too long. Sad to read the #### storm from the cluster of winger trolls every time Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #58

Yeah, we're all winger trolls because we like to tell the truth about mismanagement and corruption GGJohn Nov 2014 #75

You "like to tell the truth about mismanagement and corruption in the VN. Govt." Interesting. Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #79

Stop it, yer killing me. GGJohn Nov 2014 #84

"The troll cluster here passes on, with great heat, what the oddly crafted right-wing line" EX500rider Nov 2014 #103

Truth is inconvenient isn't it. GGJohn Nov 2014 #107

So is this the way it works, anyone who disagrees with you on the corruption in GGJohn Nov 2014 #108

You know it's possible to like baseball and hate th Yankees Adrahil Nov 2014 #132

Avoiding or denying uncomfortable truths is a FreeRepublic trait FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #72

OFFS.... Adrahil Nov 2014 #118

Even "liberals" are brainwashed to hate genuine Leftism. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #126

NO. You are mistaken. Adrahil Nov 2014 #129

The only scared trader is one who has taken the wrong position nt Depaysement Nov 2014 #51

This smells like a Shock Doctrine ratfuck. hifiguy Nov 2014 #68

That's my suspicion, too Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #93

Yeah, that's it, it couldn't possibly be the fault of the VN govts. mismanagement of the economy. GGJohn Nov 2014 #98

Did I say that the Venezuelan government was perfect? Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #101

If the government is controlling prices TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #119

True, most of the businesses are still in private hands, GGJohn Nov 2014 #121

Just like what Nixon did, then Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #123

And, just like in VN. it backfired badly. GGJohn Nov 2014 #124

Yup. The Mighty Wurlitzer is getting it's freak on. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #127

Anyone beisdes me ever heard of "The Peter Principle?" Archae Nov 2014 #69

Thought-provoking attempt to try to stretch "banana republic" to fit Maduro's administration! Wow. Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #76

And this has what to do with what's going on in VN today? GGJohn Nov 2014 #78

Ask the 1 who wrote "Maduro is on way over his head and is beginning the autocratic "banana republic Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #81

Well, he is in over his head and well on the way towards a banana republic. GGJohn Nov 2014 #85

The pattern is there. Archae Nov 2014 #80

Pattern is there? You forgot they are puppet governments put in place by US interests, Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #82

I guess when all else fails, blame the US govt for VN's woes. GGJohn Nov 2014 #86

Obama was positively cackling when he gave the order to impose hyperinflation there (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #95

I think yours is the winning post for today! 7962 Nov 2014 #111

Will the Vultures like Paul Singer come in at the last minute and buy the debt for a fraction randys1 Nov 2014 #77

No. VZ will simply default hack89 Nov 2014 #83

What an absolute mess Chavez and Maduro have made of that place. Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #87

It was such a paradise before. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #94

The problem is the dependence on oil, and has been a problem since at least the 1920s happyslug Nov 2014 #99

Bond traders, generally, are lying sacks of shit. Sort of like selling used cars. bemildred Nov 2014 #97

Hey that Bolivarian Socialism is really working out well ! Imajika Nov 2014 #100

Really? Mugabe? I guess I missed those OPs unless it was before my time. 7962 Nov 2014 #112

If you follow the western media narritive on Ven, everyone there should have died a decade ago. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #106

the collapse of oil prices should put a damper on dirty oil projects here too yurbud Nov 2014 #114

Hi... sendero Nov 2014 #120

You know it's bad when Cubans are fleeing that country. Kaleva Nov 2014 #122

Here's a thought; maybe the Maduro supporters here should move their savings to Venezuela... brooklynite Nov 2014 #128