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JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
46. The 72% figure (not 70%) is misleading for several reasons.
Mon May 23, 2016, 04:51 AM
May 2016

That statistic is from the CBS News/New York Times Poll taken between May 13th and 17th. But it is misleading because,firstly, the CBS News article that reported the results of that survey made it clear that, when not restricted to a choice of voting ONLY for Clinton or Trump, 8 out of 10 of ALL Sanders supporters surveyed who were registered voters (not just those who were allowed to/participated in the Democratic Primary) wanted to be able to choose another option (write-in, not vote, or vote 3rd party/Independent candidate)! Surprisingly, a majority of both Democrats and Independents also did not want to be limited to voting only for either Clinton or Trump!


(3rd paragraph)
Still, most voters are not content with the options of Clinton and Trump: while 46 percent of registered voters would be satisfied with that match-up, 52 percent want more choices. Most Republicans (55 percent) are satisfied, while most Democrats (52 percent) and independents (60 percent) are not. Eight in 10 Sanders supporters would like other choices.

(survey at bottom of article)
Q28 If Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the two parties' candidates for the presidency in November, would you be satisfied choosing between them or would you like other choices?

** REGISTERED VOTERS **

---------------------Total Rep Dem Inp
------------------------%---%---%---%
Satisfied-------------- 46---55---47---38
Other choices--------- 52---43---52---60
Don't know/No answer---1----2----1----1

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/


Secondly, since the actual questions were withheld from the published survey, it wasn't immediately obvious to whom that 72% figure referred. Here is the wording from the CBS News' article:

Contentious primary contests on both sides haven't turned off many primary voters from voting for their party's candidate in a likely November match-up between Trump and Clinton, even if these candidates are not their preferred primary choice. Seventy-one percent of Republican voters who did not support Trump in the primaries would still vote for him against Clinton. On the Democratic side, 72 percent of Sanders supporters would vote for Clinton against Donald Trump. (survey showing that this question actually was withheld is at bottom of this article)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/


So, based on the presentation of the Republican response that appears just before it, the reference to Sanders supporters on the "Democratic side" probably pertains only to his supporters who voted in the Democratic Primary. Left out of that 72% figure, then, are the Sanders supporters who either weren't allowed to vote in closed primaries or who simply didn't vote in the primaries. They would be enumerated in the survey category labeled "Registered Voter-Independents" (calculated total=359*). We know that during this campaign season, that has been a significant amount of his supporters who are registered to vote, and their frustrations over that may partially influence what they choose to do with their vote in the GE.

A New York Times article I found is more clear about from whom the responses to that question were gathered:

However, Mrs. Clinton is still contending with resistance to her candidacy from supporters of Mr. Sanders as their contest carries on and grows more contentious. Twenty-eight percent of Mr. Sanders’s primary voters say they will not support her if she is the nominee, a figure that reflects the continuing anger many Sanders supporters feel toward both Mrs. Clinton and a process they believe is unfair.

“I don’t support her mostly because I don’t trust her,” said Will Lambert, 32, an engineer in Denver who supports Mr. Sanders. “If she became the nominee, I might vote for a third-party candidate, like the Green Party, or I might do a write-in for Bernie. I’m still not 100 percent decided, because I don’t necessarily want to see Trump elected, either. It’s a slim possibility that I might vote for Hillary, but then, I’m at a point in my life where I just don’t want to vote for the lesser of two evils.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/20/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll.html?nlid=56810426&_r=0


Thirdly, the number of respondents broken down by which candidate they supported was withheld from the survey presented to the public. So, the total number of Sanders supporters, as well as the number of Sanders supporters broken down by party (Democratic, Independent, Republican) is unclear. It makes a difference whether the poll is referring to 72% of 200 Sanders supporters or 72% of just 10 Sanders supporters.

*
CBS NEWS/NEW YORK TIMES POLL
Party Unity and the November Election
May 13-17, 2016

------------------------------UNWEIGHTED----WEIGHTED
Total Respondents--------------------1,300
Total Registered Voters---------------1,109---------1,031

Registered Voters -Republicans---------345-----------300
Registered Voters-Democrats---------- 362-----------362
Registered Voters- Independents-------402-----------368

Republican Primary Voters--------------379-----------315
Democratic Primary Voters-------------371-----------357

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/


Lastly, that 72% of his supporters who voted in the Democratic primaries and indicated that they would vote for Hillary, if the only choice they had was her or Trump, has probably decreased significantly in this last week. The survey for this poll began May 13th, the day before the contentious Nevada State Democratic Convention, and ended May 17th, while the Hillary campaign was falsely maligning Sanders supporters with allegation of violence at the convention, but before the those allegations were debunked as lies. Negative impressions of the Democratic party by Sanders supporters have soared since then and previous intentions by some of his supporters to resignedly vote for the Democratic nominee have undoubtedly hardened into resolve to not only NOT EVER vote for Hillary, but to now leave the Democratic party.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Thanks! This section on the Clinton Machine's Media domination is worth re-posting: NewImproved Deal May 2016 #1
The drumbeats for the Iraq war seem so familiar now....just like the coronation drumbeats. bbgrunt May 2016 #36
The pattern is indeed repeatedly discernable. eom Betty Karlson May 2016 #41
Excellent Post McKim May 2016 #126
nothing compared with this certainot May 2016 #95
Didn't split in 2008. Won't split in 2016. onehandle May 2016 #2
I disagree pmorlan1 May 2016 #4
This time we have a Democrat and an 'also ran.' onehandle May 2016 #7
What drivel kaleckim May 2016 #26
Excellent pmorlan1 May 2016 #42
Very sad. Duval May 2016 #89
You keep waiting for that indictment fairy. Sorry, she isn't coming. leftofcool May 2016 #53
Do the math. AlbertCat May 2016 #71
Like I said, do the math. Hillary will be the nominee. leftofcool May 2016 #76
And She will LOSE the election to Trump. weknowvino2 May 2016 #80
Praying this isn't so. lark May 2016 #86
You really should check your Demographics leftofcool May 2016 #130
Fewer than 12 Federal Agents currently investigating her. frylock May 2016 #112
Thank you nvme May 2016 #131
K&R! n/t RKP5637 May 2016 #55
You know me so well. nt onehandle May 2016 #63
+ 1,000,000 n/t TIME TO PANIC May 2016 #70
Agree Worldly Traveler May 2016 #84
the left is stupid to expect the sanders warrens and wellstones to certainot May 2016 #96
Great theory kaleckim May 2016 #135
so, what part of obama's gansta community organizer mooslim certainot May 2016 #136
Yes kaleckim May 2016 #137
what part of the simple math in my original comment is hard to understand certainot May 2016 #138
Excellent Carolina May 2016 #129
Agreed. TwilightZone May 2016 #11
Hahaha. KPN May 2016 #50
So either folks here are democrats who support the party regardless where the party goes... PoliticalMalcontent May 2016 #21
Frank and right on! KPN May 2016 #51
No, actually it is not. I and millions of others are TIRED of getting screwed by PatrickforO May 2016 #30
Exactly! leftofcool May 2016 #54
Agreed. This is hyperbole Stuckinthebush May 2016 #64
How many primaries have you seen? When did you begin to vote? When did you register? Ford_Prefect May 2016 #69
I've seen many Stuckinthebush May 2016 #118
You're right. As much as the Sanders folks wish it was true, it isn't. stopbush May 2016 #94
There was no split to be made in 2008. Both are centrist and corporate. cui bono May 2016 #111
Yeah, this time they are only 96% the same based on their votes. onehandle May 2016 #116
They are no where near 96% the same. cui bono May 2016 #120
Excellent post pmorlan1 May 2016 #142
We are split now. The People thru Sen Sanders are fighting, in some cases literally, for their lives rhett o rick May 2016 #113
The only split is between Internet forum/social media IDs. onehandle May 2016 #117
That's true with the HRC people I know in real life. Gore1FL May 2016 #121
So you admit that Sanders supporters haven't been violent. Well I agree but if you've rhett o rick May 2016 #122
Amen McKim May 2016 #125
It's splitting. n/t tazkcmo May 2016 #132
Huh. Phlem May 2016 #133
the party is not splitting. the opportunist hijacking the party for his own gain is doing the msongs May 2016 #3
Keep your head in the sand. I imagine it's cool down there. BillZBubb May 2016 #5
And doing it badly. 70% of BS voters are reasonable people who have said they will vote for Hillary. Squinch May 2016 #6
The 72% figure (not 70%) is misleading for several reasons. JimDandy May 2016 #46
Wall of words in the service of a candidate who has already lost. I'll pass. Squinch May 2016 #99
TRANSLATION: I don't do imformation. frylock May 2016 #114
Translation: I've got nothin'. NT pablo_marmol May 2016 #123
Thank You.... bvar22 May 2016 #106
Get Over Yourself billhicks76 May 2016 #12
Clinton taking money has jack to do with the election as for the article *meh*the Democrats have cstanleytech May 2016 #14
You Better Hope You're Right billhicks76 May 2016 #32
I am sorry you feel this way. With over 40,000 posts, I'm imagining you've PatrickforO May 2016 #31
Well said. Millions in this country feel they have no representation anymore. Bernie gives them RKP5637 May 2016 #57
Yes, once again the Democrats bungle and bumble there way along LiberalLovinLug May 2016 #104
Exactly!!! I've talked to some of them, they say Trump is the only one addressing their RKP5637 May 2016 #109
Both parties are putting up "bottom of the barrel". nt JEB May 2016 #8
And, it doesn't have to be this way! n/t chervilant May 2016 #27
Seems we let in a Trojan horse candidate. brush May 2016 #9
You obviously haven't been paying attention pmorlan1 May 2016 #10
He's been attacking the party non-stop lately brush May 2016 #13
Maybe they should have been pmorlan1 May 2016 #19
Well why the hell did he join the party if he's so against it? brush May 2016 #24
Why are you so focused on Bernie? pmorlan1 May 2016 #25
That's true Andy823 May 2016 #97
Maybe one day you will get it pmorlan1 May 2016 #98
This party is a double edged sword kaleckim May 2016 #29
"He chose to use the party . . ." Exactly. brush May 2016 #66
Brush, you're just not seeing it for the big picture Ned_Devine May 2016 #33
Not a smart move then to join the party where people are "rolling their eyes at him". brush May 2016 #68
I didn't miss any big picture Ned_Devine May 2016 #79
Interpret it how you want. It still doesn't make sense to me to join a party and then commense . . . brush May 2016 #82
He's attacking the corrupt system, not the voters. The voters have been had Ned_Devine May 2016 #85
I see him constantly attacking the Democratic Party establishment. brush May 2016 #88
You are sounding like a sore loser and you haven't even lost yet passiveporcupine May 2016 #35
"He" has won at least states, something like that I believe. JDPriestly May 2016 #43
well said, thanks eom LittleGirl May 2016 #45
Democrats like me really like him and want him, not Hillary, to be president. AlbertCat May 2016 #72
True. Her one hope is that no one wants Trump. JDPriestly May 2016 #73
Many democrats have been fed up with the democratic party for some time now. RKP5637 May 2016 #58
he is running against the party because passiveporcupine May 2016 #34
Attacking the party you're a member of publicly over and over, never been done before. brush May 2016 #65
Seems you'd be wrong passiveporcupine May 2016 #81
I'd be wrong only if Sanders wins, but the math tells me that is not in the cards. brush May 2016 #83
Whoosh passiveporcupine May 2016 #87
Okay, whatever you say. Your post is tiresome and full or the usual Sanders rhetoric brush May 2016 #93
Maybe you should watch these clips passiveporcupine May 2016 #147
Your Idea is Correct McKim May 2016 #127
Bookmarked for later. Thanks. zentrum May 2016 #15
You're Welcome pmorlan1 May 2016 #18
Thanks. nt silvershadow May 2016 #16
You're Welcome pmorlan1 May 2016 #17
The Party is splitting because the corporate wing decided to insult the base, Maedhros May 2016 #20
Spot-on. Thesis statement of the crux of the issue Populist_Prole May 2016 #38
I disagree. It's because so many people finally got fed up with the corporate wing. Jim Lane May 2016 #44
True. The insults and condescension just reduced the chances for reconciliation. [n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #75
In a word: Money modestybl May 2016 #22
No splitting. timdog44 May 2016 #23
What?!? chervilant May 2016 #28
I think it very sad timdog44 May 2016 #47
Then, chervilant May 2016 #48
It does not serve timdog44 May 2016 #49
It does not serve chervilant May 2016 #119
Really?!? chervilant May 2016 #143
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2016 #37
You are welcome pmorlan1 May 2016 #39
A few highlights. Especially the trend is interesting: Betty Karlson May 2016 #40
+1 Duval May 2016 #92
The party will be fine. apcalc May 2016 #52
The party will be fine after California, so will DU for that matter. redstatebluegirl May 2016 #56
You can blame it on trolls if you want pmorlan1 May 2016 #61
Good article...thanks! Nt HooptieWagon May 2016 #59
You're Welcome pmorlan1 May 2016 #62
Those of you who think Bernie Sanders followers are democrank May 2016 #60
Barbara Boxer D-CA, whose daughter had a son with [Clinton]’s brother Bodych May 2016 #67
There is one thing I disagree with. LiberalCatholic May 2016 #74
DU oftentimes has the feel of junior high drama..... NoMoreRepugs May 2016 #77
Greed, arrogance and blind ambition DebbieCDC May 2016 #78
knr retrowire May 2016 #90
Flash back to the late 1960s WHEN CRABS ROAR May 2016 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc May 2016 #100
YES pmorlan1 May 2016 #103
By covering for them, he did more than legitimize it. bvar22 May 2016 #108
Yes he did pmorlan1 May 2016 #110
Kicked and recommended to the Max! nt Enthusiast May 2016 #101
This message was self-deleted by its author Enthusiast May 2016 #102
On Democratic Party Unity ArcticFox May 2016 #105
Looks Like We're FINALLY Getting Into Some MUCH NEEDED ChiciB1 May 2016 #107
A big difference between Reps and Dems randr May 2016 #115
I hope there is no split, but the fault lines are obvious. hay rick May 2016 #124
Thank you for your thoughtful comments pmorlan1 May 2016 #128
I have visited the Democratic Underground for all my news for 13 years or better but never engaged Machineland May 2016 #134
Great Post pmorlan1 May 2016 #139
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #145
Love it.....your very thorough and convincing...hope Hillary people read this and change their minds Pauldg47 May 2016 #140
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #146
I just noticed pmorlan1 May 2016 #141
It's the Third Way/DLC that caused it. alarimer May 2016 #144
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