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George II

(67,782 posts)
7. I was under the assumption that Sanders' bill was conceptual in nature with very few....
Mon Aug 20, 2018, 01:00 PM
Aug 2018

....specific details.

When you go to his website, there's a link that says "Read the full plan" (https://berniesanders.com/medicareforall/), but when you click on it you get this (excuse the lengthy copy/paste) This isn't a "plan" - nothing about how providers will be paid or at what rates.

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. Every other major industrialized nation has done so. It is time for this country to join them and fulfill the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson and other great Democrats.

The Affordable Care Act was a critically important step towards the goal of universal health care. Thanks to the ACA, more than 17 million Americans have gained health insurance. Millions of low-income Americans have coverage through expanded eligibility for Medicaid that now exists in 31 states. Young adults can stay on their parents’ health plans until they’re 26. All Americans can benefit from increased protections against lifetime coverage limits and exclusion from coverage because of pre-existing conditions. Bernie was on the U.S. Senate committee that helped write the ACA.

But as we move forward, we must build upon the success of the ACA to achieve the goal of universal health care. Twenty-nine million Americans today still do not have health insurance and millions more are underinsured and cannot afford the high copayments and deductibles charged by private health insurance companies that put profits before people.

The U.S. spends more on health care per person, and as a percentage of gross domestic product, than any other advanced nation in the world, including Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. But all that money has not made Americans healthier than the rest of the world. Quite simply, in our high-priced health care system that leaves millions overlooked, we spend more yet end up with less.

Other industrialized nations are making the morally principled and financially responsible decision to provide universal health care to all of their people—and they do so while saving money by keeping people healthier. Those who say this goal is unachievable are selling the American people short.

Americans need a health care system that works for patients and providers. We need to focus our federal investments on training the health care providers. We need to ensure a strong health care workforce in all communities now and in the future. We need to build on the strength of the 50 years of success of the Medicare program. We need a health care system that significantly reduces overhead, administrative costs and complexity. We need a system where all people can get the care they need to maintain and improve their health when they need it regardless of income, age or socioeconomic status. We need a system that works not just for millionaires and billionaires, but for all of us.

Under Bernie’s plan, Americans will benefit from the freedom and security that comes with finally separating health insurance from employment. That freedom would not only help the American people live happier, healthier and more fulfilling lives, but it would also promote innovation and entrepreneurship in every sector of the economy. People would be able to start new businesses, stay home with their children or leave jobs they don’t like knowing that they would still have health care coverage for themselves and their families. Employers could be free to focus on running their business rather than spending countless hours figuring out how to provide health insurance to their employees. Working Americans wouldn’t have to choose between bargaining for higher wages or better health insurance. Parents wouldn’t have to worry about how to provide health insurance to their children. Americans would no longer have to fear losing their health insurance if they lose their job, change employment or go part-time. Seniors and people with serious or chronic illnesses could afford the medications necessary to keep them healthy without worry of financial ruin. Millions of people will no longer have to choose between health care and other necessities like food, heat and shelter, and will have access to services that may have been out of reach, like dental care or long-term care.

Simply put, Bernie’s plan will provide all Americans with the sense of freedom and peace of mind that comes from knowing you always have access to the health care you need.

THE PLAN

BETTER COVERAGE

Bernie’s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie’s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.

WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS

As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie’s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.

GETTING HEALTH CARE SPENDING UNDER CONTROL

We outspend all other countries on the planet and our medical spending continues to grow faster than the rate of inflation. Creating a single, public insurance system will go a long way towards getting health care spending under control. The United States has thousands of different health insurance plans, all of which set different reimbursement rates across different networks for providers and procedures resulting in high administrative costs. Two patients with the same condition may get very different care depending on where they live, the health insurance they have and what their insurance covers. A patient may pay different amounts for the same prescription depending solely on where the prescription is filled. Health care providers and patients must navigate this complex and bewildering system wasting precious time and resources.

By moving to an integrated system, the government will finally have the ability to stand up to drug companies and negotiate fair prices for the American people collectively. It will also ensure the federal government can track access to various providers and make smart investments to avoid provider shortages and ensure communities can access the providers they need.

MAJOR SAVINGS FOR FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES

Bernie’s plan will cost over $6 trillion less than the current health care system over the next ten years.

The United States currently spends $3 trillion on health care each year—nearly $10,000 per person. Reforming our health care system, simplifying our payment structure and incentivizing new ways to make sure patients are actually getting better health care will generate massive savings. This plan has been estimated to save the American people and businesses over $6 trillion over the next decade.

The typical middle class family would save over $5,000 under this plan.

Last year, the average working family paid $4,955 in premiums and $1,318 in deductibles to private health insurance companies. Under this plan, a family of four earning $50,000 would pay just $466 per year to the single-payer program, amounting to a savings of over $5,800 for that family each year.

Businesses would save over $9,400 a year in health care costs for the average employee.

The average annual cost to the employer for a worker with a family who makes $50,000 a year would go from $12,591 to just $3,100.

HOW MUCH WILL IT COST AND HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT?

HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?

This plan has been estimated to cost $1.38 trillion per year.

THE PLAN WOULD BE FULLY PAID FOR BY:

A 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers.

Revenue raised: $630 billion per year.
A 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households.

Revenue raised: $210 billion per year.This year, a family of four taking the standard deduction can have income up to $28,800 and not pay this tax under this plan.A family of four making $50,000 a year taking the standard deduction would only pay $466 this year.

Progressive income tax rates.

Revenue raised: $110 billion a year.Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:

37 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
43 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
48 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2013, only 113,000 households, the top 0.08 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10 million.)
52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2013, only 13,000 households, just 0.01 percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)

Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.

Revenue raised: $92 billion per year. Warren Buffett, the second wealthiest American in the country, has said that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. The reason is that he receives most of his income from capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a much lower rate than income from work. This plan will end the special tax break for capital gains and dividends on household income above $250,000.

Limit tax deductions for rich.

Revenue raised: $15 billion per year. Under Bernie’s plan, households making over $250,000 would no longer be able to save more than 28 cents in taxes from every dollar in tax deductions. This limit would replace more complicated and less effective limits on tax breaks for the rich including the AMT, the personal exemption phase-out and the limit on itemized deductions.

The Responsible Estate Tax.

Revenue raised: $21 billion per year.This provision would tax the estates of the wealthiest 0.3 percent (three-tenths of 1 percent) of Americans who inherit over $3.5 million at progressive rates and close loopholes in the estate tax.

Savings from health tax expenditures.

Revenue raised: $310 billion per year. Several tax breaks that subsidize health care (health-related “tax expenditures”) would become obsolete and disappear under a single-payer health care system, saving $310 billion per year.Most importantly, health care provided by employers is compensation that is not subject to payroll taxes or income taxes under current law. This is a significant tax break that would effectively disappear under this plan because all Americans would receive health care through the new single-payer program instead of employer-based health care.


As they say, all sizzle, very little steak.

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The Fact-Checkers Are Clueless [View all] Uncle Joe Aug 2018 OP
No, they're not. And facts matter. Hortensis Aug 2018 #1
The OP cites explicit examples Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #3
Yes, he's "speaking about the American Peoples' savings" but giving precious little detail about.... George II Aug 2018 #10
Using BERNIE'S PLAN, even the Mercatus report reflected two trillion dollars in savings, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #13
Has this plan been adopted in Vermont yet? Gothmog Aug 2018 #17
Forest and the trees. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #25
Again if sanders has a magical plan then get it adopted in Vermont Gothmog Aug 2018 #29
Bernie is one of Vermont's U.S. Senators not the Governor of that fine state. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #39
Actually, his refusal to talk about Green Mountain Care's failure, and possible lessons learned ehrnst Aug 2018 #31
Vermont is not an island in the ocean and has a small population to boot, it's not even a Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #48
Gothmog has a good point. The desire to stick to Hortensis Aug 2018 #23
When Bernie was citing two trillion dollars in savings for the American People listed in the Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #36
Trump and Sanders BOTH promised BETTER healthcare Hortensis Aug 2018 #41
"National" healthcare? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #46
Sanders needs to break that BOTH by producing a plan Hortensis Aug 2018 #50
It's not a static world Hortensis what can't be achieved today can very well be done Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #51
From the Mercatus report: ehrnst Aug 2018 #34
Bernie's PLAN isn't a law yet dansolo Aug 2018 #81
It's a bill and Blahous of the Koch funded Mercatus Center based his findings Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #82
that expenditure cut is based on a huge assumption: JHan Aug 2018 #35
++++++ brer cat Aug 2018 #77
I trust CNN and the other fact checkers Gothmog Aug 2018 #2
I trust the facts Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #5
So do I, which is why I trust Tapper Gothmog Aug 2018 #15
Did you listen to your own video Tapper either begins misleading or lies at about Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #19
I both listened to it and I actually understood it Gothmog Aug 2018 #20
Do you believe "government" and the "American People" are the same thing in regards to this issue? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #22
LOL-so when will we hear about Vermont adopting this plan? Gothmog Aug 2018 #24
Who pays for the 20% of medical bills that Medicare doesn't cover? It only covers 80% brush Aug 2018 #42
Who pays for the bills that the uninsured leave at the emergency room doorstep? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #44
I'm asking a serious question. If you don't know if Medicare for all pays for it just say so. brush Aug 2018 #45
My questions were quite serious, I suspect you know who pays for it. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #47
I don't know. It's a simple question. People with Medicare have to pay the 20%. brush Aug 2018 #55
I understand there is a detailed plan, but have yet to see it ehrnst Aug 2018 #63
I just posted the relevant paragraph, the plan does. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #68
maybe not Kurt V. Aug 2018 #27
Got anything on factcheck.org? ehrnst Aug 2018 #38
Except when they dispute something that Sanders says. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #32
so now anyone who disagrees with Sanders is wrong.. JHan Aug 2018 #4
Do you have any rebuttals to the actual OP's points of contention? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #6
I did. JHan Aug 2018 #11
"mainstream fact checkers are wrong" ehrnst Aug 2018 #33
exactly. JHan Aug 2018 #37
It is almost as if someone WANTS universal to fail, ultimately. Or that it should be Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #28
I was under the assumption that Sanders' bill was conceptual in nature with very few.... George II Aug 2018 #7
It's more than conceptual if you want more specifics Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #12
The specifics have been analyzed by independent, non-partisan think tanks. ehrnst Aug 2018 #30
The author makes assumptions on what the medical community will or won't do and from whence does he Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #40
Here's a video of Tapper changing Bernie and Alexandria's claim but don't believe your own eyes Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #8
Here is what Ricardo Alonzo-Zaldivar from AP has to say about the Mercatus Center paper: George II Aug 2018 #18
... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #9
... Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #14
Yes, Jacobin, that shining beacon of objective political analysis.. ehrnst Aug 2018 #16
Gothmog's video on post # 15 supports at least one of Jacobin's contentions Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #21
Splitting hairs on one phrase. ehrnst Aug 2018 #26
Bernie said "that wasn't what the study intended to do but it was in the study" Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #43
Not really Gothmog Aug 2018 #76
Who is this person? Gothmog Aug 2018 #49
The writer for Jacobin appears to lack an editor. lapucelle Aug 2018 #53
Jacobin? Again? lapucelle Aug 2018 #52
Politifact is wrong what Bernie said is true Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #54
In only one of two possible, equally likely scenarios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #56
I'll believe factcheck.org and/or Politifact over any politician when they disagree. ehrnst Aug 2018 #57
Are they not human as well? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #59
Is Tapper working for factcheck.org and Politifact now? ehrnst Aug 2018 #61
It was half true because it was only one of two possible scenarios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #58
But according to Jacobin, Politifact is in cahoots with Mercatus to get Bernie! ehrnst Aug 2018 #74
Not in the real world Gothmog Aug 2018 #75
Now that's a statement I would expect to see from a Trump supporter. ehrnst Aug 2018 #60
Which statement? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #62
The title of your OP. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #64
And the substance of the article refers to the "fact checkers' and backs up it's assertions. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #65
I have yet to see factcheck.org or Politifact retract. ehrnst Aug 2018 #66
Well the OP is primarily about Tapper but there were other segments Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #67
"media doing the same knee jerk or premeditated misleading." ehrnst Aug 2018 #69
This isn't a tweet! The Medicare for All Bill, Mercatus report, Bernie's truthful response, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #70
Fact checking is fact checking, and you posted an article that accuses ehrnst Aug 2018 #71
Fact checking IS fact checking, that's the point, so we're checking the facts of the fact checkers Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #72
When you post conspiracy theory worthy, unsubstantiated claims about the free press ehrnst Aug 2018 #73
The fact checkers based their assumptions on a faulty premise Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #78
Because Jacobin says so? ehrnst Aug 2018 #115
I believe you and I have used many of the same posts over the course of our debates Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #117
I think that your citing of that Jacobin article says much about ehrnst Aug 2018 #118
I've cited Sach's analysis on CNN as well but you have yet to respond to his article Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #120
Your very OP concerns the Mercatus study, and the fact checking of Bernie's claims about it. ehrnst Aug 2018 #121
I can just re post this because the same answer applies Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #123
..... ehrnst Aug 2018 #124
What are the "self corrected fact checks" lapucelle Aug 2018 #79
Well there is Kessler at the Washington Post Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #80
Sanders clearly didn't contact Blahous before making his statement on the study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #83
I have a feeling that talking points were rolled out based on a superficial reading lapucelle Aug 2018 #86
I know that it was featured in an email campaign for donations. ehrnst Aug 2018 #91
That's Blahous' opinion NOT based on the requirements of the BILL it's just an Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #94
From Blahous: ehrnst Aug 2018 #105
Still no answer to Jeffrey Sachs' criticism of Blahous' study. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #111
Still no answer to how the author of the study is not credible enough to understand ehrnst Aug 2018 #113
Kessler still gives BS's claim 3 Pinnochios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #84
Stop it with the FACTS, will you?? ehrnst Aug 2018 #85
... lapucelle Aug 2018 #87
Why use the word "cherry picked" when citing the results of study of the actual BILL. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #88
"So why should Bernie or anyone else cite that as it's not based on reality? " ehrnst Aug 2018 #89
A common sense example of what BS did in his big announcement lapucelle Aug 2018 #93
Bingo. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #95
More like this Blahous example of his report. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #97
No, that's really stretching it. ehrnst Aug 2018 #102
There were two aspects of this report one pertaining to the ACTUAL bill which reflects savings of Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #96
"based on an alternate reality not based on the bill" ehrnst Aug 2018 #103
There are KNOWN aspects of the bill to which Blahous chose to ignore in his second scenario Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #108
Not very many known aspects of the funding mechanism... ehrnst Aug 2018 #109
Provider payment rates in Sanders's plan are not "assumptions" Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #112
This does not address the fact that Sanders did not accurately represent ehrnst Aug 2018 #114
Because only one of two possibilities was acknowleged. lapucelle Aug 2018 #90
As the author said, Sanders chose a number presented as "unlikely" according to the study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #92
Bernie chose the number from the grading of his actual bill and what about this? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #99
So you don't think that he understood the data in his study? ehrnst Aug 2018 #100
I just presented evidence from economist Jeffrey Sachs stating of at least three major dynamics not Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #106
And I presented to you Blahous' statement on the conclusions that were not supported by his study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110
Blahous' study is not out of line with some mainstream economists Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #116
The main issue you have is that he did an analysis "based on the actual bill" ehrnst Aug 2018 #119
Bernie was pointing to "An Inconvenient Truth" WITHIN the study because he believed Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #122
The only possibility based in the real world was the analysis of the actual BILL not Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #98
So he's not "competent enough" to come up with a scenario that proves Bernie's numbers... ehrnst Aug 2018 #101
Because the BS bill has no funding provisions lapucelle Aug 2018 #104
Indeed. Bernie's own projections are not as fleshed out, and he is not a policy analyst. ehrnst Aug 2018 #107
The study was purely binary, Bernie has wisely proposed a whole range of funding options and Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #126
Kick ck4829 Aug 2018 #125
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