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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
11. V2G is a preposterous idea. It is wrong in every way possible
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 02:40 PM
Feb 2014

It is the wrong technology for grid storage and absent a law-of-physics breakthrough in battery technology there will never be enough excess battery capacity on vehicles such that any person would be willing to give up any of those electrons.

This is a fanciful idea that is utterly disconnected from the real world. The storage systems that serious people are considering for the grid are large-scale, scalable systems like compressed air, pumped water, flywheels, and flow batteries. Yes, there are a few examples where Li-Ion has been used in grid applications, but this will never be widespread because the economics are all wrong, not to mention the safety.

Here are some companies to look at.
http://www.eosenergystorage.com/ does zinc-air.

http://www.capstoneturbine.com/ makes systems that can be spun up literally in seconds to add scalable peak capacity driven by natural gas. The better you handle the peaks, the less important storage becomes.

This article talks about developments in flow-battery technology. If you are going to use large-scale chemical storage on the grid, it will be something like this. http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2014/0109/Clean-energy-storage-on-the-cheap-in-new-flow-battery

If Musk thinks he will sell a lot of lithium batteries for the grid, he is a fool. And I don't think he is a fool. If he can build a good, economical lithium-ion battery, there will be plenty of demand for that in the transportation world at least for the nest 8-10 years. Worst case, he will have a dependable supply of batteries for Tesla production. But that is the point of the OP article. Do we have any good reason to believe Musk can do Li-Ion better that all the others who have been trying (with mostly disappointing results) to take this technology forward? Not really, but again, I wouldn't bet against Musk.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

That's how Musk always operates BlueStreak Feb 2014 #1
I don't know enough to bet for him or against him BBR Esq Feb 2014 #3
Why does that worry you? Scuba Feb 2014 #2
It doesn't worry me, BBR Esq Feb 2014 #4
I guess I can't tell what part of the OP is cut/paste and what is yours. Scuba Feb 2014 #5
The OP is all cut and paste. BBR Esq Feb 2014 #6
I think the issue is that Musk will use other people's money and LOADS of public handouts BlueStreak Feb 2014 #7
The storage market for EVs, solar panels, and the grid is ready to explode kristopher Feb 2014 #8
This technology will never be on the grid BlueStreak Feb 2014 #9
Not true at all, my friend. kristopher Feb 2014 #10
V2G is a preposterous idea. It is wrong in every way possible BlueStreak Feb 2014 #11
No, your rejection of the body of work that supports it is "preposterous" kristopher Feb 2014 #12
If only I'd known you were shorting Tesla when we had this exchange... kristopher Mar 2014 #21
It has gone down almost $20/share since I bought my puts. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #22
"Utility in a Box" or "The Economics of Grid Defection" kristopher Feb 2014 #13
Considering how much money Musk has... MicaelS Feb 2014 #14
The 500,000 production figure is deceptive Mother Muckraker Feb 2014 #15
Did he say they would al be Teslas? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #16
Who cares how "he" does? Mother Muckraker Feb 2014 #17
That's food for thought. BBR Esq Feb 2014 #18
Just for the record, I am not sucked in by his lies BlueStreak Feb 2014 #19
As if on cue, TSLA stock drops over $8 today BlueStreak Feb 2014 #20
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