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struggle4progress

(126,059 posts)
12. Here's what the Church Committee says early in its Volume V
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:46 AM
Jun 2014

on the NSA:

... The value of its work has been and will continue to be inestimable. We are determined not to impair the excellent contributions made by the NSA to the defense of our country. To make sure this committee does not interfere with ongoing intelligence activities, we have had to be exceedingly careful, for the techniques of the NSA are of the most sensitive and fragile character. We have prepared ourselves exhaustively; we have circumscribed the area of inquiry to include only those that represent abuses of power; and we have planned the format for today's hearing with great care, so as not to venture beyond our stated objectives ... NSA has been cooperative with the committee ...

The Report is available at the Senate Intelligence website

You are free, I suppose, to make whatever ideological presuppositions you wish, regarding what material, among the 1.5 million documents alleged obtained by Snowden, might or might not have been known by other governments before the materials were released. But such presuppositions must be regarded as speculative. Snowden himself could not possibly have evaluated 1.5 million pages before releasing them

To date, several of his releases have provoked diplomatic crises between other nations

Nor is there any real evidence that anyone in particular in is control of Snowden's materials. Assange, for example, recently released some material Greenwald loudly refused to release. The Register recently published material, allegedly from Snowden, about UK tapping of cables in the Middle East -- and what connection could that possibly have to your defense that Snowden is merely alerting Americans to the dangers of domestic surveillance?

The fact is: the Snowden case is really rather opaque. Is he a well-intended but naive wonder-boy? Is he a wannabe Chinese agent, a US agent planted in Russia, or an NSA contractor recruited by the Russians, or a double agent, or a triple agent? Did the NSA discover he was trying to download files and sucker him into downloading a bit of sexy stuff and a lot of trash? We could be deep in Mirror-Puzzle-Land here, so there's really no way to know

The domestic surveillance issues are certainly winnable political fights if approached properly -- but hitching that wagon to Snowden is a losing proposition. The nicest view one could hold of Snowden is that he seems bright and well-intentioned but is fundamentally bonkers. A lot of Americans will gladly climb on a wagon fluttering flags No Domestic Surveillance! And at least half of them will jump right back off if the wagon also flies banners Let's Tell Our Spy Secrets to Other Countries!

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please provide source for the notion.. grasswire Jun 2014 #1
It's a recent web-rumor. I have no reason to suspect there are any serious talks struggle4progress Jun 2014 #2
nothing but wild speculation, then nt grasswire Jun 2014 #14
Not exactly wild speculation: it points out where Snowden's difficulties struggle4progress Jun 2014 #16
Al Gore understands the value of Snowden's actions. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #3
"... he wasn’t fully aware of the facts ..." struggle4progress Jun 2014 #5
I doubt that the Chinese or Russians were at all surprised by Snowden't revelations. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #6
Here's what the Church Committee says early in its Volume V struggle4progress Jun 2014 #12
You are absolutely right fasttense Jun 2014 #13
IMO, the biggest obstacle is the verbiage on the SF 312 he signed...nt MADem Jun 2014 #4
Time and more information about who was placed under surveillance, what the criteria was for JDPriestly Jun 2014 #7
Good article--amazing how "surveilled" people are on a day-to-day basis without any NSA help. MADem Jun 2014 #8
There were whistleblowers before Snowden who told us what was going on. Gore points that out. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #9
Told "us." Didn't tell the Chinese, and the Russians. MADem Jun 2014 #10
Wyden made Clapper look sympathetic? Are you freaking lkidding me? grasswire Jun 2014 #15
In the world of people who are not partisan. Clapper ran 'round to the political talk shows, MADem Jun 2014 #17
as I asked, in what world? in whose world? grasswire Jun 2014 #19
In the real world, in the world where people aren't focused on political party preference MADem Jun 2014 #20
that is not true grasswire Jun 2014 #21
There were supposed to be TWO SESSIONS. MADem Jun 2014 #24
the notion that Wyden hurt himself is ridiculous grasswire Jun 2014 #22
No, it isn't ridiculous. It is accurate. MADem Jun 2014 #23
still making things up, I see grasswire Jun 2014 #25
Now you are starting to be rude, hurtful and disruptive and I don't like it. MADem Jun 2014 #28
....in YOUR mind, YOUR opinion. grasswire Jun 2014 #31
In the mind of anyone reading this exchange. nt MADem Jun 2014 #32
sure grasswire Jun 2014 #35
You first. You're the one who likes to make everything PERSONAL. nt MADem Jun 2014 #36
Uh, so we shouldn't ask any questions that might put wrongdoers in the awkward position of snot Jun 2014 #29
What does that sentence even mean? Who's "we?" I didn't see you at that hearing. MADem Jun 2014 #30
WOW !!! - Wyden Is The Jerk, Because Good Guy Clapper Was Forced To Lie ??? WillyT Jun 2014 #38
amazing, isn't it? grasswire Jun 2014 #40
You have misunderstood the Congressional immunity struggle4progress Jun 2014 #11
I can't do better than S4P's response at 11. They ARE allowed to talk freely, as are Reps, so long MADem Jun 2014 #18
you obviously don't know Ron Wyden. grasswire Jun 2014 #26
He disregarded the instructions of the committee chair and he asked a MADem Jun 2014 #27
Laughable. grasswire Jun 2014 #33
I've had enough of your snarky, personal comments and childish invective. MADem Jun 2014 #34
I AM going to defend Senator Wyden and Ed Snowden... grasswire Jun 2014 #37
You aren't doing that. You're engaging in personal insult and making yourself look MADem Jun 2014 #39
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