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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
49. Nacchio's experience answers your question.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 11:48 PM
Apr 2014

It isn't that we Americans are so secretive. At 70, I have very little to hide, and most of that very little is known to my doctor, my family and my friends and of no interest to the NSA or anyone else.

But, we have this document called the Constitution of the United States. It bars the government from passing any law (or acting in the absence of a law) that would deprive us of our very natural rights, those we are born with like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, a fair trial, etc. They are all written down in the covenant that forms the basis of our country -- again, it's called the Constitution of the United States. The NSA is not respecting our rights under that document. It does not request a warrant based on probable cause before it searches our persons, houses, papers, and effects. And its search of our persons, houses, papers, and effects is unreasonable because its search encompasses nearly everything that relates to our persons, houses, papers and effects. Don't bring up the Smith v. Maryland case. That was handed down in the late 1970s and did not pertain to a world in which we do everything from break up with our boyfriends to join organizations to sign petitions, to find boyfriends (not at my age, but well), to discuss what we had for breakfast this morning, to pay our bills, to communicate with our doctors, to buy and borrow books and clothing. . . . all the things that we used to do in our houses, all the papers we used to keep in hard copy. In short, if the Fourth Amendment does not apply to electronic media, its' meaning and purpose are eviscerated. And the NSA has obviously violated it.

But then we go on to other amendments. The NSA spying on Americans without probable call also eviscerates virtually every one of them. In fact, that good old Third Amendment, the one about quartering troops in houses (Remember: No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.) I understand that the day will soon be here if it isn't already when through the camera on your computer (the one you use to Skype), the government will be able to intrude into your very home. Might as well have the entire NSA army housed in your living room or wherever you keep your computer.

Worst of all, your right to a fair trial can be compromised by the NSA and indeed by the entire concept of secret courts and secret evidence.

Horrors! The NSA surveillance is the obliteration of our Bill of Rights. And don't tell me it is just metadata. I know what can be done with a list of phone numbers. I used to work at the phone company and later had a job in which I sometimes reviewed phone numbers for legal purposes and with the knowledge of the person whose phone numbers I was reviewing.

It's one thing when a private company takes your computer information for strictly private purposes -- like locating you as a potential customer. That private company does not have the ability to dream up some sort of criminal charge against you and then claim that, for reasons of national security, it doesn't have to produce the evidence you have to exonerate yourself.

And that is precisely what Nacchio claims happened to him. Watch the video at # 13 below. I don't know whether his viewpoint is "correct or true" or not. None of us can know because too much of the relevant evidence was apparently excluded from the trial on national security grounds.

The Redcoats could never have thought of such a horrible violation of people's rights. What did our ancestors fight the American Revolution for if not to eliminate the possibility that an American government would ever adopt the heavy-handed methods that the NSA is using today?

Don't brush the complaints about the spying off so easily.

As for the legitimate and important pursuit of terrorists and the acquisition of foreign intelligence, the NSA could do all that quite well without violating our Constitution. And it should.

I will tell you as one who lived in Europe on the edge of Eastern Europe at the relevant time, if the information Americans were getting about the Soviet menace in the late '70s and early '80s was coming from the CIA, they had it totally wrong and any person including any CIA agent living where I was in Europe would have known it. The Soviet Union was dying long before 1989 -- long before 1989. Hungary and Austria had a trade agreement that permitted free travel between the two countires well before 1989.

Once the Hungarian-Austrian border was open, the finale on the Soviet Union was a pretty sure thing. If the CIA did not see that coming, it's because they weren't looking.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I wasn't aware of this.. thanks for bringing it to my attention. n/t 2banon Apr 2014 #1
I wasn't either. zeemike Apr 2014 #2
+1 2banon Apr 2014 #10
Interview: Thomas Drake, pre-Snowden NSA whistleblower cprise Apr 2014 #68
That's the way it works. PeoViejo Apr 2014 #3
I wish I could rec this a thousand times. I wish I were that sure that he was blameless Demeter Apr 2014 #4
K & R Mbrow Apr 2014 #5
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #6
Don't break your arm congratulating your conformist / authoritarian self just 20score Apr 2014 #7
Firebagger/Naterite logic: Being against crooked CEOs = conformist/authoritarian ConservativeDemocrat Apr 2014 #12
I see, "Reality Based Community" is meant ironically. 20score Apr 2014 #15
So True hueymahl Apr 2014 #33
This. Jamaal510 Apr 2014 #21
I agree... reACTIONary Apr 2014 #24
Holy shit! Were you asleep during the Bush Administration? 20score Apr 2014 #28
Are you calling other DU posters, "Firebaggers and Naderites?" Is this whining? rhett o rick Apr 2014 #44
Nacchio's experience answers your question. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #49
Some people just don't believe it is wrong zeemike Apr 2014 #14
I believe it's wrong to break the law, as this asshat did... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #18
But not wrong for the government to break the law zeemike Apr 2014 #20
I was and still am very much against the warrantless wiretapping Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #41
Time Magazine is to Truth in about the same proportion that truedelphi Apr 2014 #23
Let me see . . . Jack Rabbit Apr 2014 #29
Have you watched the interview by Bartolucci with Naccio? Post 13. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #37
Hi JD. I'm willing to give anyone a shot if the facts bear it out, but flat out, this doesn't do it ConservativeDemocrat Apr 2014 #39
In other words you side with George Bush. nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #45
So why did the government claim that evidence should be excluded from the trial due to JDPriestly Apr 2014 #50
''Obama's NSA.'' DeSwiss Apr 2014 #8
Happened under Bush... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #9
Watch his interview with Maria Bartolucci (hope I got the name right) in Post # 13. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #38
You are in poor company. George Bush thinks he is a crook also. He didnt fool you too? nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #46
Talk about strawmen... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #54
This person is a crook who deserved prison for longer then he got nakocal Apr 2014 #11
Facts aren't welcome here when talking about the NSA... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #16
This occurred BEFORE the patriot act. zeemike Apr 2014 #17
Partriot Act was passed in 2002... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #19
It is not just his claim... zeemike Apr 2014 #22
So you are saying that you side with the Bush administration. nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #47
On convicting this criminal? Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #53
The government should have honored Nacchio's request and allowed him to JDPriestly Apr 2014 #51
His first conviction was overturned... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #55
"Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." George Orwell 20score Apr 2014 #26
+10, and... reACTIONary Apr 2014 #25
What massive corruption? And part of why he went to jail was for almost destroying a company? cui bono Apr 2014 #27
He was CEO of Qwest Communications... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #42
Insider trading is what Bush accused him of. You seem to be on the wrong side of history here. nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #48
What the fuck is your hardon for this guy? Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #56
What is yours? cui bono Apr 2014 #57
Qwest was NEVER a clean company... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #60
Disregarding your rudeness, I think he was set-up. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #61
Project much? Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #64
It's just my opinion but I think you are in the wrong message board. rhett o rick Apr 2014 #65
Longtime Democrats don't belong on Democratic Underground? Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #66
Maria Bartiromo did a lengthy interview with him last week. Very interesting. Link: 7962 Apr 2014 #13
Thank you for posting this. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #35
No, I didnt post it elsewhere; I didnt think about it till it was too late for "breaking news". 7962 Apr 2014 #40
K&R. We DUErs knew about this a number of years ago. I remember this case clearly. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #30
I was here then but I missed it. zeemike Apr 2014 #31
K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #32
I do remember this story as it happened. K&R. 20score Apr 2014 #34
"Before 911." This post should have hundreds of recommendations. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #36
The PNAC crowd just had to wait a couple months for their catalyzing event. /nt jakeXT Apr 2014 #58
That 2000 "election" was a coup. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #59
I agree that there has been a "coup". I believe those that took control still have control. nm rhett o rick Apr 2014 #62
That's two of us. There are many more. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #63
He told them to piss off. They had to make an example of him. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #43
I knew about him Warpy Apr 2014 #52
K&R cprise Apr 2014 #67
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