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FBaggins

(28,706 posts)
5. Sorry... that's simply wrong.
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:55 PM
Mar 2012

There's a dispute over whether or not Congress is empowered by the constitution to take a particular action. How could that be anything but a case "in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution" ? How is it not a "Controvers(y) to which the United States (is) a Party" ?

The real situation is much simpler. All three branches of government not only have the power but the responsibility to uphold the Constitution. If, for instance, Congress were to pass a law removing the right to free speech over the President's veto, he would still be within his powers to refuse to enforce it and the courts would be empowered to nullify it.

You forget also that "the judicial power" is not a term that sprang into existence with the signing of the Constitution. The framers had an existing understanding of what powers were "executive", legislative" and "judicial" even when they had not been held by different branches. But the judicial power most certainly included the power to void legislation "repugnant to the constitution". The genius of the framers wasn't to get rid of that power, but to divorce it from the executive and vest it in an independent judiciary.

From Federalist 78 -

If, then, the courts of justice are to be considered as the bulwarks of a limited Constitution against legislative encroachments, this consideration will afford a strong argument for the permanent tenure of judicial offices, since nothing will contribute so much as this to that independent spirit in the judges which must be essential to the faithful performance of so arduous a duty.

This independence of the judges is equally requisite to guard the Constitution and the rights of individuals from the effects of those ill humors, which the arts of designing men, or the influence of particular conjunctures, sometimes disseminate among the people themselves, and which, though they speedily give place to better information, and more deliberate reflection, have a tendency, in the meantime, to occasion dangerous innovations in the government, and serious oppressions of the minor party in the community. Though I trust the friends of the proposed Constitution will never concur with its enemies,3 in questioning that fundamental principle of republican government, which admits the right of the people to alter or abolish the established Constitution, whenever they find it inconsistent with their happiness, yet it is not to be inferred from this principle, that the representatives of the people, whenever a momentary inclination happens to lay hold of a majority of their constituents, incompatible with the provisions in the existing Constitution, would, on that account, be justifiable in a violation of those provisions; or that the courts would be under a greater obligation to connive at infractions in this shape, than when they had proceeded wholly from the cabals of the representative body. Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon themselves collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption, or even knowledge, of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives in a departure from it, prior to such an act. But it is easy to see, that it would require an uncommon portion of fortitude in the judges to do their duty as faithful guardians of the Constitution, where legislative invasions of it had been instigated by the major voice of the community.

But it is not with a view to infractions of the Constitution only, that the independence of the judges may be an essential safeguard against the effects of occasional ill humors in the society. These sometimes extend no farther than to the injury of the private rights of particular classes of citizens, by unjust and partial laws. Here also the firmness of the judicial magistracy is of vast importance in mitigating the severity and confining the operation of such laws. It not only serves to moderate the immediate mischiefs of those which may have been passed, but it operates as a check upon the legislative body in passing them; who, perceiving that obstacles to the success of iniquitous intention are to be expected from the scruples of the courts, are in a manner compelled, by the very motives of the injustice they meditate, to qualify their attempts. This is a circumstance calculated to have more influence upon the character of our governments, than but few may be aware of. The benefits of the integrity and moderation of the judiciary have already been felt in more States than one; and though they may have displeased those whose sinister expectations they may have disappointed, they must have commanded the esteem and applause of all the virtuous and disinterested. Considerate men, of every description, ought to prize whatever will tend to beget or fortify that temper in the courts: as no man can be sure that he may not be to-morrow the victim of a spirit of injustice, by which he may be a gainer to-day. And every man must now feel, that the inevitable tendency of such a spirit is to sap the foundations of public and private confidence, and to introduce in its stead universal distrust and distress.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

LOL. K&R, was just about to post this ProfessorPlum Mar 2012 #1
Not impossible CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #60
Thanks, Thom izquierdista Mar 2012 #2
Thom need's a Constellation named After Him happerbolic Mar 2012 #61
The SC thumbs their noses at this bjobotts Apr 2012 #82
The Court effectively asserted that it had the right to review the constitutionality of a law... PoliticAverse Mar 2012 #3
Thanks, Averse! elleng Mar 2012 #30
Thanks! wxgeek7 Mar 2012 #4
updated/edited, by the people and... magic59 Mar 2012 #19
True wxgeek7 Mar 2012 #22
Sorry... that's simply wrong. FBaggins Mar 2012 #5
The Supreme Court acts as if they were kings meow2u3 Mar 2012 #6
This is the same kind of court that attcked FDR. McCamy Taylor Mar 2012 #7
And it decided Brown TomClash Mar 2012 #13
So Congress is bought and sold (agreed). And so is the SCOTUS. Where does that leave us? n/t truth2power Mar 2012 #72
I'm guessing, as Thom's book title says, it leaves us Screwed. classof56 Mar 2012 #74
Unfortunately, yes. I'm feeling quite depressed lately about the prospects of truth2power Mar 2012 #78
+1 freshwest Mar 2012 #8
That is why I always listen when you talk zeemike Mar 2012 #9
Yup. Folks just don't know about "Marbury v. Madison" TahitiNut Mar 2012 #10
Or maybe you should blame those who WERE taught it but chose not to study it and master it. RBInMaine Mar 2012 #12
+1 Alcibiades Mar 2012 #23
I was never the sharpest knife in the history drawer ... TahitiNut Mar 2012 #44
It is true that they placed the legislative branch in Article One to emphasize their especially RBInMaine Mar 2012 #11
You might find otherwise, by READING the Constitution Fearless Mar 2012 #14
The fact that one person on the SCOTUS, who was not voted into office, mzmolly Mar 2012 #16
The Founders really didn't care about what the masses thought. Fearless Mar 2012 #17
I agree that some of the founders mzmolly Mar 2012 #18
Undoubtedly. n/t Fearless Mar 2012 #20
Supreme Court members are voted into office by your representatives. Similar... PoliticAverse Mar 2012 #21
Appointed by the president and confirmed Alcibiades Mar 2012 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author mzmolly Mar 2012 #34
Voted - is a strong word considering there is no election/competition. mzmolly Mar 2012 #35
What happens when the Congress passes unconstitutional law? Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #43
What generally happens, is the justices disagree on what constitutes a violation, mzmolly Mar 2012 #46
So the courts do serve as arbiters of the constitutionality of laws. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #48
They have. The question is mzmolly Mar 2012 #53
I think so. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #56
History demonstrates that they haven't always checked or balanced mzmolly Mar 2012 #58
it's a pendulum. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #73
Thanks, Fearless. elleng Mar 2012 #32
I think it would come better from your mouth... Fearless Mar 2012 #41
Will do, Fearless, but not until I return home, Tuesday evening, I think. elleng Mar 2012 #64
Seems pretty quiet... I've been working a lot myself and haven't had much time online lately though. Fearless Mar 2012 #66
I haven't even read news; darn hotel internet VERY sketchy, elleng Mar 2012 #68
Its that interpretation d_legendary1 Mar 2012 #50
Actually it isn't. Fearless Mar 2012 #65
Try telling that to the Super PACS d_legendary1 Apr 2012 #84
Sounds to me like they set a new precident with Citizens United instead. Fearless Apr 2012 #85
Ha! That'll school ya! SemperEadem Mar 2012 #15
He's a christian apologist, I have no use for him. MNBrewer Mar 2012 #24
Marbury was a power grab Alcibiades Mar 2012 #26
Very illuminating. K & R snagglepuss Mar 2012 #27
There are very few exceptions that congress has made, such as the anti-injunction act. joshcryer Mar 2012 #28
I been wrong many times before, but... Speck Tater Mar 2012 #29
That's pretty cool. Skinner Mar 2012 #40
Congrats. mzmolly Mar 2012 #47
So is Thom saying shawn703 Mar 2012 #31
Thom I love you and I know so many disagree with you. Cleita Mar 2012 #33
Awesome. Guess i stand corrected. Lars77 Mar 2012 #36
BRAVO, THOM, RIGHT ON drynberg Mar 2012 #37
Memo to all women who like to control their own bodies TomClash Mar 2012 #38
You're suggesting only 9 wise men can "save women" thomhartmann Mar 2012 #45
I think it is very cool of you to take the time to redress this silliness. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2012 #49
+1. Thanks, Thom. stevedeshazer Mar 2012 #59
So women's rights should be beholden to Congress and not the Constitution. joshcryer Mar 2012 #67
If the K Street gang The Wizard Mar 2012 #39
RT is the best news media in the U.S. just1voice Mar 2012 #42
The Supreme Court doesn't have the power to elect Presidents either. rug Mar 2012 #51
Judicial power extends to cases arising under the Constitution. JDPriestly Mar 2012 #52
You're right - but that doesn't give them the power to strike down laws thomhartmann Mar 2012 #55
But that argument ultimately gives the reason they can strike down laws... PoliticAverse Mar 2012 #70
"enforce"? thomhartmann Mar 2012 #77
Thom makes you want to be better informed... MrMickeysMom Mar 2012 #54
Article 6, Section and Implied Powers for Judicial Review. LBJ Liberal Mar 2012 #57
So what about nullification and succession? Dokkie Mar 2012 #62
I am not very impressed at all by this clip rapmanej Mar 2012 #63
This thread is a must read, i wish i could rec it a thousand times! chknltl Mar 2012 #69
For more background on the issue of 'Judical Review'... PoliticAverse Mar 2012 #71
This wikipedia entry is heavily biased in favor of judicial review thomhartmann Mar 2012 #75
Read the Dean of the Stanford Law School on judicial review thomhartmann Mar 2012 #76
Is This Because There's a Law Hartmann Likes On the Road Mar 2012 #79
thank you for taking time out if your busy day to respond blondie58 Mar 2012 #80
does or does not the SCOTUS have THIS veto power..... chknltl Mar 2012 #81
Sorry, but the argument presumes that anyone in power cares about the Constituion rwsanders Apr 2012 #83
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