Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Video & Multimedia
In reply to the discussion: CIA Agent Exposes How Al-Qaeda Dosen't Exist [View all]newthinking
(3,982 posts)6. From sourcewatch - a progressive / liberal wikipedia
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Al_Qaeda
Perspectives
Summed up by Jason Burke in the March 21, 2004, Guardian Unlimited (UK):
"Al-Qaeda is as much an ideology or a set of values as a single organisation led by a single leader." [1]
In Burke's May/June 2004, Foreign Policy follow-up article "Think Again: Al Qaeda" he wrote:
"The mere mention of al Qaeda conjures images of an efficient terrorist network guided by a powerful criminal mastermind. Yet al Qaeda is more lethal as an ideology than as an organization. Al Qaedaism will continue to attract supporters in the years to come--whether Osama bin Laden is around to lead them or not."
According to the perspective of historian R.T. Naylor:
"Al Queda itself does not exist, except in the fevered imaginations of neo-cons and Likudniks, some of whom, I suspect, also know it is a myth, but find it extremely useful as a bogeyman to spook the public and the politicians to acquiesce in otherwise unacceptable policy initiatives at home and abroad. By those terms, Al Queda is cast like 'the Mafia' and similar nonsense coming from police lobbies. This is a complex issue but, putting it very simply, what you have in both cases is loose networks of likeminded individuals-sometimes they pay homage to some patron figure who they may never have met and with whom they have no concrete relationship. They conduct their operations strictly by themselves, even if they may from time to time seek advice." [2]
According to the perspective of author Jason Burke:
"Every piece of evidence I came across in my own work contradicted this notion of al-Qaeda as an 'evil empire' with an omnipotent mastermind at its head. Such an idea was undoubtedly comforting - destroy the man and his henchmen and the problem goes away - but it was clearly deeply flawed." [3]
In the May 23, 2002, Christian Science Monitor, Kimberly A. McCloud and Adam Dolnik wrote:
"The United States and its allies in the war on terrorism must defuse the widespread image of Al Qaeda as a ubiquitous, super-organized terror network and call it as it is: a loose collection of groups and individuals that doesn't even refer to itself as 'Al Qaeda.' Most of the affiliated groups have distinct goals within their own countries or regions, and pose little direct threat to the United States. Washington must also be careful not to imply that any attack anywhere is by definition, or likely, the work of Al Qaeda."
"we must be honest with the facts in order to construct a viable long-term strategy"
Peter Bergen wrote December 25, 2003:
"... there is a great deal of ambiguity about what exactly constitutes al Qaeda. Is it a terrorist organization run in a regimented top-down fashion by its CEO, Osama bin Laden? Or is it a loose-knit group of Islamist militants around the world whose only common link is that many of them trained in Afghanistan? Or has al Qaeda, the organization, morphed into something best described as al Qaeda, the movement -- a movement defined by adherence to bin Laden's virulent anti-Westernism/anti-Semitism and propensity for violence? Is 'al Qaeda' all of the above?"
... and describes four concentric rings of depiction:
"First there is al Qaeda, the organization. Most non-specialists are surprised to learn that al Qaeda has only 200 to 300 members. These are the men who have sworn bayat, an oath of allegiance to serve their emir, or leader, bin Laden, even unto death. (It is al Qaeda, the organization, that carried out the Sept. 11 attacks.)
"The second concentric ring spreading out beyond the inner core of al Qaeda consists of perhaps several thousand "holy warriors" trained in the group's Afghan camps in the terrorist black arts of bomb making and assassination.
"Beyond this circle are tens of thousands of militants who received some kind of basic military training in Afghanistan over the past decade. Many of these trainees went to Afghanistan for what amounted to little more than a jihad vacation. Most were to be cannon fodder in the Taliban's war against the Northern Alliance. Think John Walker Lindh.
"Finally, untold numbers of Muslims around the world subscribe to bin Laden's Manichean worldview that the West is the enemy of Islam. Some of these, too, may be prepared to do violence."
Bergen concludes that there is evidence "that al Qaeda has successfully turned itself from an organization into a mass movement -- one that has been energized by the war in Iraq."
In the documentary series The Power of Nightmares, producer Adam Curtis "tells the story of Islamism, or the desire to establish Islam as an unbreakable political framework, as half a century of mostly failed, short-lived revolutions and spectacular but politically ineffective terrorism. Curtis points out that al-Qaida did not even have a name until early 2001, when the American government decided to prosecute Bin Laden in his absence and had to use anti-Mafia laws that required the existence of a named criminal organisation." --Andy Beckett for The Guardian, October 15, 2004
"In an era of satellite television and the World Wide Web," Faye Bowers writes of Al-Qaida in Christian Science Monitor, "it is nearly impossible to stop boutique terror groups - small homegrown cells that can reach mass audiences with just a videocamera and a few stylish graphics." According to Michael Scheuer, a former senior intelligence official who studied Al Qaeda for more than a decade, "Their communications systems are light-years more sophisticated than they were on 9/11." [4]
Perspectives
Summed up by Jason Burke in the March 21, 2004, Guardian Unlimited (UK):
"Al-Qaeda is as much an ideology or a set of values as a single organisation led by a single leader." [1]
In Burke's May/June 2004, Foreign Policy follow-up article "Think Again: Al Qaeda" he wrote:
"The mere mention of al Qaeda conjures images of an efficient terrorist network guided by a powerful criminal mastermind. Yet al Qaeda is more lethal as an ideology than as an organization. Al Qaedaism will continue to attract supporters in the years to come--whether Osama bin Laden is around to lead them or not."
According to the perspective of historian R.T. Naylor:
"Al Queda itself does not exist, except in the fevered imaginations of neo-cons and Likudniks, some of whom, I suspect, also know it is a myth, but find it extremely useful as a bogeyman to spook the public and the politicians to acquiesce in otherwise unacceptable policy initiatives at home and abroad. By those terms, Al Queda is cast like 'the Mafia' and similar nonsense coming from police lobbies. This is a complex issue but, putting it very simply, what you have in both cases is loose networks of likeminded individuals-sometimes they pay homage to some patron figure who they may never have met and with whom they have no concrete relationship. They conduct their operations strictly by themselves, even if they may from time to time seek advice." [2]
According to the perspective of author Jason Burke:
"Every piece of evidence I came across in my own work contradicted this notion of al-Qaeda as an 'evil empire' with an omnipotent mastermind at its head. Such an idea was undoubtedly comforting - destroy the man and his henchmen and the problem goes away - but it was clearly deeply flawed." [3]
In the May 23, 2002, Christian Science Monitor, Kimberly A. McCloud and Adam Dolnik wrote:
"The United States and its allies in the war on terrorism must defuse the widespread image of Al Qaeda as a ubiquitous, super-organized terror network and call it as it is: a loose collection of groups and individuals that doesn't even refer to itself as 'Al Qaeda.' Most of the affiliated groups have distinct goals within their own countries or regions, and pose little direct threat to the United States. Washington must also be careful not to imply that any attack anywhere is by definition, or likely, the work of Al Qaeda."
"we must be honest with the facts in order to construct a viable long-term strategy"
Peter Bergen wrote December 25, 2003:
"... there is a great deal of ambiguity about what exactly constitutes al Qaeda. Is it a terrorist organization run in a regimented top-down fashion by its CEO, Osama bin Laden? Or is it a loose-knit group of Islamist militants around the world whose only common link is that many of them trained in Afghanistan? Or has al Qaeda, the organization, morphed into something best described as al Qaeda, the movement -- a movement defined by adherence to bin Laden's virulent anti-Westernism/anti-Semitism and propensity for violence? Is 'al Qaeda' all of the above?"
... and describes four concentric rings of depiction:
"First there is al Qaeda, the organization. Most non-specialists are surprised to learn that al Qaeda has only 200 to 300 members. These are the men who have sworn bayat, an oath of allegiance to serve their emir, or leader, bin Laden, even unto death. (It is al Qaeda, the organization, that carried out the Sept. 11 attacks.)
"The second concentric ring spreading out beyond the inner core of al Qaeda consists of perhaps several thousand "holy warriors" trained in the group's Afghan camps in the terrorist black arts of bomb making and assassination.
"Beyond this circle are tens of thousands of militants who received some kind of basic military training in Afghanistan over the past decade. Many of these trainees went to Afghanistan for what amounted to little more than a jihad vacation. Most were to be cannon fodder in the Taliban's war against the Northern Alliance. Think John Walker Lindh.
"Finally, untold numbers of Muslims around the world subscribe to bin Laden's Manichean worldview that the West is the enemy of Islam. Some of these, too, may be prepared to do violence."
Bergen concludes that there is evidence "that al Qaeda has successfully turned itself from an organization into a mass movement -- one that has been energized by the war in Iraq."
In the documentary series The Power of Nightmares, producer Adam Curtis "tells the story of Islamism, or the desire to establish Islam as an unbreakable political framework, as half a century of mostly failed, short-lived revolutions and spectacular but politically ineffective terrorism. Curtis points out that al-Qaida did not even have a name until early 2001, when the American government decided to prosecute Bin Laden in his absence and had to use anti-Mafia laws that required the existence of a named criminal organisation." --Andy Beckett for The Guardian, October 15, 2004
"In an era of satellite television and the World Wide Web," Faye Bowers writes of Al-Qaida in Christian Science Monitor, "it is nearly impossible to stop boutique terror groups - small homegrown cells that can reach mass audiences with just a videocamera and a few stylish graphics." According to Michael Scheuer, a former senior intelligence official who studied Al Qaeda for more than a decade, "Their communications systems are light-years more sophisticated than they were on 9/11." [4]
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
88 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Remember when we called them Al-Cia'da(sp), here on DU? We've known it was horse crap since
Mnemosyne
Jun 2014
#1
Lol, so much for 'informed comment' on RT. One of the better International news
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#26
They are very fair in their interviews and generally very professional. It's a shame to see the
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#31
I've been watching RT for more than two years, and have seen professional news reporting
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#32
Actually, I have been researching and posting on this topic quite a bit and
newthinking
Jun 2014
#14
I always want to do the opposite of what an authoritarian tries to push me to do
newthinking
Jun 2014
#40
Thank you for the OP, I have found RT to be right more often than wrong on many issues.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#33
You mean like the Corporate Propaganda machine? Rt has excellent reporters, news from all over the
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#27
Actually the analyst in your link says the west's understanding of Al Queda is incorrect.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#35
Yes! Fluoridation Conspiracy Theory! Your credibility is shredding so tell us more
uhnope
Jun 2014
#58
Actually, it's al Qaeda as described by the Bush Administration that doesn't and never did exist....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jun 2014
#45
And I don't see any point in slapping a label on people to dismiss what they say.
zeemike
Jun 2014
#52
I am not 'condemning everyone who ever spoke to them'; I am condemning Scheuer himself!
LeftishBrit
Jun 2014
#65
No, you are taking this "analyst" at face value when the less gullible or the less corrupt
uhnope
Jun 2014
#67
Are you supporting our interventionalist foreign policies? It's not clear whether or not you
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#53
do you support Putin's interventionalist foreign policies? And his private FOX TV of RT?
uhnope
Jun 2014
#59
Well, since you decided to speak for me, using that old internet mind reading device we are all so
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#60
Lol, well to my knowledge, Thom Hartmann, Pepe Escobar, among others, are not 'disguising' anything.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#73
Well, the Left sure supported him throughout the Bush years. Any idea why? Could it be he had
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#74
Yes, he was lauded for speaking out against the Bush administration on the left.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#79
And yet, Michael Scheuer was quoted quite 'liberally' even here on DU during the Bush years.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#54
GREAT post. RT is trotting out a RW nutter and the gullible think it's "progressive"
uhnope
Jun 2014
#66
To start with, do a search on DU on Scheurer. We have become accustomed to seeing those
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#85
Misspelling in the subject, "doesn't". Respectfully: Is English your second language and is Russian
uhnope
Jun 2014
#56
just curious. Some of the RT defenders and pro-Putin crowd might be sock puppets
uhnope
Jun 2014
#68
ahhh. paid posters sent by the MIC? please develop this conspiracy theory a little more for us
uhnope
Jun 2014
#71
RT puts people on who are not puppets, mostly Liberals actually. Are you suggesting that people
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#84
Were you around on DU during the Bush era? Scheurer spoke out against Bush policies and was, airc,
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#86
I have been on DU since 2004. I have been opposed to the war since it started!
LeftishBrit
Jun 2014
#87