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In reply to the discussion: If Clinton Is So Sure She Will Win, Why Does She Need To Mislead Us About The Popular Vote? [View all]Gothmog
(180,479 posts)126. Shaun King's attempt at analysis is simply wrong
Shaun King's analysis is simply wrong https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/
The idea that the popular vote totals are flawed because caucuses aren't included has been floating around for a while. The point of questioning the sum is obvious: To question the extent to which Democratic voters (and independents voting in Democratic contests, who usually favor Sanders) have preferred Clinton as the party's nominee.
This has been floating around so long, in fact, The Post's fact-checkers looked at this issue at the beginning of April. Did Clinton at that point actually lead by 2.5 million votes, as she claimed? No, she didn't.
She led by 2.4 million votes.
The Post's Glenn Kessler arrived at that figure by taking estimates of how many people came out to vote in caucus contests and applying the final vote margin to that population. This is admittedly imprecise, as King notes, since in some caucuses (like Iowa's) voter preferences can and do change. Kessler's total included Washington, despite King's insistence -- and in Washington, he figured that Sanders had the support of 167,201 voters to Clinton's 62,330. Despite that, still a 2.4 million advantage for Clinton.
It's worth noting that caucuses, for which it's harder to calculate vote totals, are usually in smaller states and/or have smaller turnout. King's concern about ensuring Alaska's huge Democratic voting base is included in the tally is answered by Kessler's math.
What's more, Kessler continued updating his tally as results came in. The most recent update was after the contests on April 27, at which point her wins in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland and other Northeastern states had extended her lead to "just over 3 million votes" -- including his estimates for the caucuses. (By my tabulation of Kessler's numbers, it's 3.03 million.)
Since then, there have been five contests.
In total, then, Clinton's lead over Sanders in the popular vote is 2.9 million. The difference isn't because the total excludes Washington. It's because it includes more recent contests from the past 14 days.
That number will continue to change. There are only two big states left -- New Jersey and California -- both of which vote June 7. Clinton leads by a wide margin in New Jersey, where more than a million people turned out in 2008. She has a smaller lead in California, where about 5 million voted in the Democratic primary eight years ago. For Sanders to pass Clinton in the popular vote, he would need turnout like 2008 in California -- and to win by 57 points.
This has been floating around so long, in fact, The Post's fact-checkers looked at this issue at the beginning of April. Did Clinton at that point actually lead by 2.5 million votes, as she claimed? No, she didn't.
She led by 2.4 million votes.
The Post's Glenn Kessler arrived at that figure by taking estimates of how many people came out to vote in caucus contests and applying the final vote margin to that population. This is admittedly imprecise, as King notes, since in some caucuses (like Iowa's) voter preferences can and do change. Kessler's total included Washington, despite King's insistence -- and in Washington, he figured that Sanders had the support of 167,201 voters to Clinton's 62,330. Despite that, still a 2.4 million advantage for Clinton.
It's worth noting that caucuses, for which it's harder to calculate vote totals, are usually in smaller states and/or have smaller turnout. King's concern about ensuring Alaska's huge Democratic voting base is included in the tally is answered by Kessler's math.
What's more, Kessler continued updating his tally as results came in. The most recent update was after the contests on April 27, at which point her wins in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland and other Northeastern states had extended her lead to "just over 3 million votes" -- including his estimates for the caucuses. (By my tabulation of Kessler's numbers, it's 3.03 million.)
Since then, there have been five contests.
Indiana. Sanders won with 32,152 more votes.
Guam. Clinton won with 249 more votes.
West Virginia. Sanders won with 30,509 more votes.
Kentucky. Clinton won with 1,924 more votes (per the latest AP count).
Oregon. Sanders won with 69,007 more votes (per AP).
In total, then, Clinton's lead over Sanders in the popular vote is 2.9 million. The difference isn't because the total excludes Washington. It's because it includes more recent contests from the past 14 days.
That number will continue to change. There are only two big states left -- New Jersey and California -- both of which vote June 7. Clinton leads by a wide margin in New Jersey, where more than a million people turned out in 2008. She has a smaller lead in California, where about 5 million voted in the Democratic primary eight years ago. For Sanders to pass Clinton in the popular vote, he would need turnout like 2008 in California -- and to win by 57 points.
The analysis in the OP is simply false
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If Clinton Is So Sure She Will Win, Why Does She Need To Mislead Us About The Popular Vote? [View all]
GoLeft TV
May 2016
OP
Quit attacking Hillary: Sanders has lost: Hillary knows she will fight for every vote
lewebley3
May 2016
#59
Pointing out her lies isn't attacking. They didn't have WMD in Iraq, hello!! Not an attack.
rhett o rick
May 2016
#110
When she lied about the WMD in Iraq they cheered. They like her. She agrees with
rhett o rick
May 2016
#127
Hillary is very honest person: she has to be everything she does or says is examined
lewebley3
May 2016
#128
Then explain why she lied to the Senate about WMD in Iraq. Her speech was almost
rhett o rick
May 2016
#129
The Daily News is owned by Ruppert Murdoch. No different than FOX. P.S., Sanders still lost. The End
Trust Buster
May 2016
#2
Ruppert Murdoch is not objective by definition. He wishes to sow the seeds of division on the Left.
Trust Buster
May 2016
#8
Sanders has won a victory one way or other. He has exposed the corrupt culture that
rhett o rick
May 2016
#112
There is no division on the Left. The division in the Democratic Party is between the Left
rhett o rick
May 2016
#111
It was Sanders himself who had poor or NO answers to the interview he gave with NYDN. Sanders owned
riversedge
May 2016
#76
I see you don't understand what a representative government stands for. n/t
A Simple Game
May 2016
#13
For the same reason Trump is always bragging about his crowd and (ahem) hand size
corkhead
May 2016
#7
Trust me, that was twelve tons of sarcasm. A comment on the apparent ironclad inability of
Gene Debs
May 2016
#18
Hillary is a politician: she is not applying for St.hood: She will work with her party
lewebley3
May 2016
#64
She is quoting the record. Yes, Hillary will win. Bernie has no rational chance.
Sancho
May 2016
#16
Hillary's big numerical lead is due to her having won in Southern states, many of which
JDPriestly
May 2016
#21
Sanders has proven he doesn't have leadership qualities: his people are bullies
lewebley3
May 2016
#67
On the evidence she has repeatedly and about substantial issues. In this case the numbers.
Ford_Prefect
May 2016
#72
Hillary is not the only one that is certain: anyone with math skills knows Hillary has
lewebley3
May 2016
#69
Hillary never feels threatened she is a fighter: She will take on the Trump the bully
lewebley3
May 2016
#74
No it call math: we all arrived at same numbers: Sanders has lost: and without grace
lewebley3
May 2016
#86
democratic socialist (a very mild one at that) and a progressive who would beat Trump
AntiBank
May 2016
#89
yes, Clinton and her corporate masters want to smash, once and for all, any progressive
AntiBank
May 2016
#66
that qualifies as one of the most LUDICROUS statements I have ever seen on this board
AntiBank
May 2016
#75
110+ million USD...How Hillary and Bill Clinton Parlayed Decades of Public Service into Vast Wealth
AntiBank
May 2016
#79
She is up over 3 million votes over Bernie...she needs 92 more delegates...
beachbumbob
May 2016
#56
She's telling the truth. Even Sanders admits it. He says over and ove that he has received
lunamagica
May 2016
#99
She is not the one misleadingshe is up by three million votes, this is a fact.
Thinkingabout
May 2016
#102
Just might be compulsive since that seems to be what she does even when the truth serves better
emsimon33
May 2016
#118