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Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
89. Liberals arguing that the U.S. should give weapons to Syrian rebels underestimate Assad's power
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 08:26 PM
Jul 2012

I strongly recommend reading this article in salon.com by Gary Kamiya:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/dont_arm_syrias_rebels/singleton/




snips:

This is not a knee-jerk left-wing response. It has nothing to do with Iraq. Nor does it have anything to do with the proxy war between the U.S. and its allies and Iran and its allies. It is not driven by pacifism or opposition to all war. All U.S. wars are not axiomatically foolish, evil or driven by brutal self-interest (although most of them since World War II have been). The airstrikes on Kosovo and the Libya campaign were justified (although the jury is still out on the latter intervention). If arming the Syrian opposition would result in fewer deaths and a faster transition to a peaceful, open, democratic society, we should arm them.

That analysis has been provided by a number of in-depth reports, most notably a new study by the International Crisis Group, as well as the excellent on-the-ground reporting of Nir Rosen for Al-Jazeera. The bottom line is simple. The war has become a zero-sum game for Assad. If he loses, he dies. But the only way he can lose is if he is abandoned by his crucial external patron, Russia, which is extremely unlikely to happen absent some slaughter so egregious that Moscow feels it has to cut ties with him. Assad has sufficient domestic support to hold on for a long time, and a huge army that is not likely to defect en masse. Under these circumstances, giving arms to the rebels, however much it may make conscience-stricken Western observers feel better, will simply make the civil war much bloodier and its outcome even more chaotic and dangerous.

The key point concerns Assad’s domestic support. Contrary to the widely held belief that most Syrians support the opposition and are opposed to the Assad regime, Syrians are in fact deeply divided. The country’s minorities – the ruling Alawites, Christians and Druze – tend to support the regime, if only because they fear what will follow its downfall. (The grocery on my corner in San Francisco is owned by a Christian Syrian from a village outside Damascus. When I asked him what he thought about what was going on in his country, he said, “It’s not like what you see on TV. Assad is a nice guy. He’s trying to do the right thing.”) As Rosen makes clear, Syria’s ruling Alawite minority is the key to Assad’s survival: Absent an outside invasion, the regime will not fall unless the Alawites turn on it. But the Alawites fear reprisals if the Sunni-dominated opposition, some of whose members have threatened to “exterminate the Alawites,” defeats the Assad regime. The fear of a sectarian war, exacerbated by the murky and incoherent nature of the opposition, means that the minorities are unlikely to join the opposition in large numbers.

...

Our national instinct is to come riding to the rescue. It goes against our character to simply sit on our hands. Our sincere, naive and self-centered belief that America can fix everything, and our equally sincere, naive and self-centered belief that moral outrage justifies intervention, is a powerful tide, pulling us toward getting directly involved in Syria’s civil war.

But in the real world, we cannot always come riding to the rescue. Sometimes, we have no choice but to watch tragedy unfold, because anything we do will create an even bigger tragedy.

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/dont_arm_syrias_rebels/singleton/

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Disgusting. ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2012 #1
You know what's REALLY disgusting? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #2
Send us your address... Wait Wut Jul 2012 #5
Better ways to make a point? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #10
Don't say anything. ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2012 #11
Am I asking you to? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #16
Why don't you go? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #60
Why don't I go? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #63
I do care about them. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #70
If I thought that starting an Iraq-style war in Syria would help the Syrian people, and I cared sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #83
So did you enlist yet? ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2012 #7
A warmonger? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #12
Volunteer if there is a draft? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #62
Again... the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #64
Being practical. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #72
I'm a military recruiter. Will you go? uppityperson Jul 2012 #79
Whoever is arming the Syrian opposition is responsible for much of the bloodshed in sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #19
Gadhafi was slaughtering his own people the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #22
Actually, no, the lies about thousands dead were totally debunked, by the individual who sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #41
Conspiracy theories... the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #47
HE THREATENED TO! AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #65
"HE THREATENED TO!" the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #74
If you can ever tell me EXACTLY how many innocent children we killed in Iraq AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #78
Testimony before the UN is a CT now? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #80
"Help the FSA to liberate their nation" entails killing a group of Syrians to advance the religious leveymg Jul 2012 #20
It is like Libya the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #26
The two situations aren't really comparable. leveymg Jul 2012 #34
What's your solution then? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #38
There is no political solution, and more int'l intervention will simply spark wider regional war leveymg Jul 2012 #57
After Libya the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #61
Libya was the lowest-hanging fruit. It's not a model for peace in the region. leveymg Jul 2012 #76
Maybe you should join forces with the neocons champing at the bit to go in there and 'get some'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #66
Libya was a disaster and a major war crime. Please do not try to use that travesty sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #43
There is no New World Order the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #48
Conspiracy theories? You get your info from Alex Jones and you call me a CT? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #71
so spot on as usual, keep calling the war-shills out!! stockholmer Jul 2012 #93
+1000000000000000000000000 stockholmer Jul 2012 #92
Syria has China and Russia backing them Confusious Jul 2012 #3
China and Russia will back down the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #4
Would you back down? Confusious Jul 2012 #8
Not exactly accurate the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #13
Technology doesn't mean everything Confusious Jul 2012 #18
Know why we won, actually? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #28
They still kept us at bay for 5 years Confusious Jul 2012 #37
Of course we're the most powerful the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #39
I thought I had Confusious Jul 2012 #52
So our money we spend on our military doesn't translate into any technological or any other edge? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #58
No I've just had more time to read Confusious Jul 2012 #73
So you're for war? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #21
Ranting and raving... sigh... the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #29
And what would be different from Iraq in Syria? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #50
How DARE you? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #54
I saw that video when it first began circulating and have asked many times, what is the source sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #85
You're not a liberal. ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2012 #9
Ignorance is bliss, ain't it? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #14
What do you think of the million + dead Iraqis? And the torture and occupation of that sovereign sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #59
Now you have the simple solutions... the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #67
I didn't say it would result in World Peace, I said it would contribute to less violence if we sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #77
Well said. Sounds like the old FR support for the Iraq travesty. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #24
Can't be argued with, can you? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #30
No, it is not more important. Chorophyll Jul 2012 #6
I'm not saying we shouldn't be discussing it the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #15
You can't get rationality from a mound of angry red ants. L0oniX Jul 2012 #17
Excuse me. My response was irrational how, exactly? nt Chorophyll Jul 2012 #86
Damn, this kid again. Carnage251 Jul 2012 #23
Yup, me the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #32
Are you the kid in the video? uppityperson Jul 2012 #81
It is more important in Aurora Lil Missy Jul 2012 #25
I bet the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #33
For today, yes. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #27
Sorta does, yeah the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #36
Regularly ... next quesiton. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #44
The sarcasm and smarminess displayed in the video is sickening ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #31
I should be ashamed in myself? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #35
"You want to pretend it isn't happening." ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #40
"I have you on tape" the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #42
It's kinda sad the complete lack of empathy.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #46
I do care. I care more than you I suspect the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #51
Good for you ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #55
The weird one seems to be building many straw-men. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #45
I'm not gonna keep repeating myself the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #49
You again seem to pit those against each other. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #75
Zbigniew Brzezinski was on Morning Joe this morning.... nenagh Jul 2012 #53
Morning Joe? the Weird Liberal Jul 2012 #68
No, and since no one said you should get your cues from Morning Joe but rather from a man sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #87
Brzezinski never had much tolerance for the Neo-cons and their ME war obsessions. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #82
He said the USA should not send troops...can't be essentially policemen for all trouble spots.. nenagh Jul 2012 #88
How are we to "end the bloodshed"? Scootaloo Jul 2012 #56
Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #69
You're not going to be an "appeaser"? ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2012 #84
Liberals arguing that the U.S. should give weapons to Syrian rebels underestimate Assad's power Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #89
Keeping score on tragedy and/or disaster? Iggo Jul 2012 #90
Military intervention would destabilize Syria -- Brzezinski Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #91
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