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Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
42. Ah yes, the old tired well debunked argument that atheism fueled Hitler and Stalin's genocides
Mon Sep 17, 2012, 02:43 AM
Sep 2012

The problem is it just doesn't pass even a cursory bullshit test and is childishly simple to debunk. It relies on the false equivalency of atheism and religion. The problem with this failed premise is that nobody goes to war for atheism. There are no sacred books of atheism to reference as a source of wisdom, no dogma to follow, nothing to die for, no prophets to follow blindly, and no false promises of virgins or paradise in the afterlife for soldiers (which conveniently can never be verified). The basic problem with using atheism as a tool for genocide or war is it's pretty fucking hard to motivate someone to kill with it. How do you think that works exactly or have you actually bothered to think it through? You also either ignore or are unaware of Hitler's support by the Christian establishment and his frequent references to his own Christianity (whether he believed it or not) in his speeches. Hitler was never an atheist and publicly self identified as a Christian throughout his entire life without exception. Hitler very masterfully used Christianity to motivate and ultimately kill people the same way it's been done since recorded history. So did other Nazis. He well understood the power such a tool allows and he used it to great effect. So which do you think is more responsible for the Nazis? Atheism or Christianity? I'm pretty sure I know what the answer to that is, but I'd love to hear your argument and we can expand on Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot or anyone else you want too.

No, I don't discriminate against particular organized religions. They are all nutty as far as I'm concerned. It's just a matter of degree. I just use Christianity as an example most often because it's what most people in the US can most easily identify with.

Yes, I do have a problem with the 10 commandments. The problem with all ideas borne from religion is they exchange revelation for reason and inevitably revelation always trumps reason or simply does away with it entirely (as is the case with the 10 commandments). There is absolutely nothing about the 10 commandments which are based in reason. It's all revelation. So maybe it works somewhat if you happen to be a practicing Jew and you are predisposed to believe in the more hocus pocus aspects of religion and you don't happen to mind extreme misogyny. Even then I'm not really sure what value it adds to anything. Have you every actually read them and seriously gave them any thought? The first four essentially command you to close your mind and pledge your allegiance to a made up entity. The next one requires you to pledge your support to your parents, evidently regardless of whether they rape you or sell you into slavery. The next one says not to kill, unless you catch someone worshiping another god in the next town (kill the entire village and burn the livestock), you find out your wife isn't a virgin, you catch your daughter fornicating, you catch someone working on Friday or Sunday(depending on which prophet you believe more), etc. The next one says don't commit adultery, but again you get numerous exceptions like prostitutes, children, polygamy, and rape which evidently get you a free pass. The next one says not to steal, which is probably the best one of the bunch, but the bible also commands you to steal in certain instances. The next one sort of says don't lie, but even biblical scholars can't agree on what it really means so you can really make up your own definition if you want and you'll be as close as anyone. The last one says don't steal from your neighbor, which was already covered in #8 and seems a bit redundant. I guess if you steal your neighbor's slave maybe you get stoned to death twice or something. I could come up with a better list of 10 on a cocktail napkin with "don't masturbate on the bus", "don't stick your dick in a vacuum cleaner", and "don't piss in the wind" as three of the directives and I wouldn't need a talking donkey, a talking snake, or a talking bush to do it. You don't need religion to come up with nonsense.

Religious ethics don't add to reason, as you claim. It always detracts from reason. It's also inherently subject to corruption and frequently used in such a manner today just like it has been for thousands of years.

They may be right about the end of biological life if Cleita Sep 2012 #1
My mother used to call these people "holy rollers" me b zola Sep 2012 #2
Jello for brains. nt valerief Sep 2012 #3
Some Jehovas came to the house yesterday. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #4
Just offer them a beer or a glass of wine and pour yourself one. You will see them run not southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #8
The guy was actually kind of nice. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #10
We had a real nice JW come over to my house. I offered him a drink like a pepsi or tea southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #15
well, darlin', I believe in rapture, but it doesn't have anything to do with religion. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2012 #16
Well darlin' good for you. I not bothered by it. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #20
You are so right - My husband (before I knew him) had a friend that did JUST THIS. Told them onecent Sep 2012 #18
It is funny. Funnier was my mother-in-law that did that to a neighbor. He is a religious freak. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #19
tears are washed away with the blood of billions of people Schema Thing Sep 2012 #25
Organized religion has done their part in instilling the fear of death to control people for Lint Head Sep 2012 #5
+1 freshwest Sep 2012 #11
Feeling Guilt. NOT! chuckstevens Sep 2012 #6
their craving for destruction KT2000 Sep 2012 #7
Self-fulfilling prophecies also give a reason to dehumanize other humans and live only for yourself. freshwest Sep 2012 #12
Oooh - good point KT2000 Sep 2012 #32
It struck me listening to a very well off Christian friend who has been moaning about money... freshwest Sep 2012 #35
It's not as if this rhetoric is new Major Nikon Sep 2012 #9
Jehovah's Witnesses have some pretty strange interpretations of the bible IMO, but they are NOT truth2power Sep 2012 #22
I'm not sure what a normal interpretation of the bible would even look like Major Nikon Sep 2012 #24
I was raised as one. Schema Thing Sep 2012 #27
I saw them as relatively benign until that one part you mentioned here, was explained to me. freshwest Sep 2012 #38
concurring bigrob35 Sep 2012 #68
There are a LOT of reasons people don't like JW tkmorris Sep 2012 #69
Thank you, bigrob. When I was in high school (many, many years ago) truth2power Sep 2012 #70
I tend to agree. I guess my experience is different than many. See my response, below. n/t truth2power Sep 2012 #71
they are deceived and deceive others. zeemike Sep 2012 #13
Israel will be the site of Jesus's second coming?,,,, benld74 Sep 2012 #14
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't come off as if they were superior. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #17
Creepy! These people are batshit-crazy... truth2power Sep 2012 #21
That I hadn't heard before watching this. Richard D Sep 2012 #28
Beneath the Planet of the Apes Gabby Hayes Sep 2012 #46
These ARE NOT the kind of people we AsahinaKimi Sep 2012 #64
ZZZZzzzzzzz... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #23
I have no problem ignoring how pulpits were "crucial" in flighting slavery and Jim Crow Major Nikon Sep 2012 #30
Town churches reflected their parishioners, but... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #31
Religion has always been a piss poor basis for ethics and still is today Major Nikon Sep 2012 #33
Religion, or just Christianity? Your argument seems to be primarily against Western... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #41
Ah yes, the old tired well debunked argument that atheism fueled Hitler and Stalin's genocides Major Nikon Sep 2012 #42
I didn't say atheism caused anything, I simply mentioned that... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #43
This was your assertion, verbatim... Major Nikon Sep 2012 #44
You may remain clueless, for all I care. "Reason" may not have killed, but... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #45
You can resort to name calling, for all I care Major Nikon Sep 2012 #47
So, you have no alternative ethic yourself, is that it? Just winging it while... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #48
Sure I do Major Nikon Sep 2012 #49
I should apologize for your being a fathead? Not any time soon. TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #63
Funny thing about survival.... enki23 Sep 2012 #36
So I've heard ailsagirl Sep 2012 #26
Blasphemers. progressoid Sep 2012 #29
He! he! a TomRobbinsarian! patrice Sep 2012 #60
I haven't read that one. progressoid Sep 2012 #61
There's a sock and some other stuff and it's also about Israel & the US and some other stuff . . . patrice Sep 2012 #62
I had to watch it in 3 pieces as I was running around. Snarkoleptic Sep 2012 #34
Religion is stupid and b757pilot Sep 2012 #37
How do these folks feel about b757pilot Sep 2012 #39
Bookmarking -- thanks. gateley Sep 2012 #40
I watched this entire, documentary of stupid. EnviroBat Sep 2012 #50
True Story: People need to understand that this is a movement that is willing to do whatever they patrice Sep 2012 #51
Have you all noticed that "Liberty" University has major facilities funded by the LaHaye, as in the patrice Sep 2012 #52
My goodness! What a convenient excuse for building KILLING machines, for such a hand$$$ome patrice Sep 2012 #53
I get harassed in front of my own home by those nuts Newsie Sep 2012 #54
Wow. I'm speechless. I was raised with that shit, and I'm still speechless. mike_c Sep 2012 #55
Anybody besides me notice how much Rev. Hagee resembles Jonathan Winters in "The Loved One"? Bette Noir Sep 2012 #56
Closed with an add to become a "minister" with online course. HFW! patrice Sep 2012 #57
These. ARE. blasphemers. Practically every word out of their mouths reveals they equate patrice Sep 2012 #58
100K responded to Bush criticism of Israel = THESE are the people who CAUSED the war on Iraq. patrice Sep 2012 #59
At about 41:58 Iwillnevergiveup Sep 2012 #65
This isn't Orthodox Christianity thatwhichisnt Sep 2012 #66
you are correct, It is not even historic Evangelicalism, However, among the "Christian-right" Douglas Carpenter Sep 2012 #67
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