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In reply to the discussion: Maybe the most disturbing video I have seen. [View all]Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)44. This was your assertion, verbatim...
..., "reason" has given us Utilitarians, Nazis and Stalin.
So if my interference wasn't what you meant, then please do clarify it, because if it isn't I haven't a clue what you mean.
Reason and/or atheism has murdered no one. Not one person. Ever in recorded history.
If you think otherwise, please list a name or something of substance I can work with. Just one will do.
Meanwhile I can name millions murdered in the name of Christianity alone. I can also point to thousands of suicides where homophobia fueled by Christianity and other religions was a major factor. I can point to lives destroyed, kids abused, science scuttled in favor of hocus pocus nonsense, reproductive rights denied, rapes, slavery, misogyny, racism, genocide, delusional behavior, and on and on it goes. All of these things were either as a direct result of the application of religion based morality, or was justified by religion, or both.
I can't think of one bad thing caused by reason. Maybe you can. I'd be glad to hear it. The reason ethics based on reason is not inherently corruptible is because the ultimate arbitrator is always logic. That doesn't mean reason based systems of ethics are infallible as they are always subject to fallibility when administered by corrupt people.
I'm not really sure how a Jesuit would make me cry, unless I was a child they were trying to sodomize. Outside of that I don't really see that happening, but hey, I've been wrong before. And sure, they do seem to find some value in some forms of academic study when they aren't burning books, but I can also give you plenty of examples of theologians who were ardent Christians when they started their studies and are now fully dedicated atheists once they really found out the true origins and true meaning of Christianity. So I hope you do realize your challenge can work both ways, yes?
And I never claimed religion has no value. It manages to keep a few drunks, drug addicts, and criminals on the straight and narrow, although the efficacy is grossly overstated. It does manage to feed a few hungry people once the Bishop gets a new gold chalice and priests are sent on sabbaticals to countries with lax child molestation enforcement. It keeps old white people with weak minds from being afraid of the dark once they have sent their life savings to Kenneth Copeland so he can buy another jet. So yes, I do have to admit that there is some small tertiary value to society from religion. My argument is just that it isn't worth all the bad shit that comes along for the ride, and there is absolutely nothing religion can provide that I can't get elsewhere(other than the little wafer crackers they hand out at communion. I can't find those anywhere else). So little benefit with major social costs just doesn't seem like such a great deal to me. You can call that having a closed mind if it makes you sleep better at night.
The 10 commandments came from reason? Even if you believe that, the Hindus figured out it wasn't a good idea to kill or steal thousands of years before that and it's probably a safe bet that secular ethical thought processes came up with the idea well before that. It kinda goes along with moving out of caves and into cities which is also what eventually created most modern religions in the first place.
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Just offer them a beer or a glass of wine and pour yourself one. You will see them run not
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#8
We had a real nice JW come over to my house. I offered him a drink like a pepsi or tea
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#15
well, darlin', I believe in rapture, but it doesn't have anything to do with religion.
dixiegrrrrl
Sep 2012
#16
You are so right - My husband (before I knew him) had a friend that did JUST THIS. Told them
onecent
Sep 2012
#18
It is funny. Funnier was my mother-in-law that did that to a neighbor. He is a religious freak.
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#19
Organized religion has done their part in instilling the fear of death to control people for
Lint Head
Sep 2012
#5
Self-fulfilling prophecies also give a reason to dehumanize other humans and live only for yourself.
freshwest
Sep 2012
#12
It struck me listening to a very well off Christian friend who has been moaning about money...
freshwest
Sep 2012
#35
Jehovah's Witnesses have some pretty strange interpretations of the bible IMO, but they are NOT
truth2power
Sep 2012
#22
I'm not sure what a normal interpretation of the bible would even look like
Major Nikon
Sep 2012
#24
I saw them as relatively benign until that one part you mentioned here, was explained to me.
freshwest
Sep 2012
#38
I tend to agree. I guess my experience is different than many. See my response, below. n/t
truth2power
Sep 2012
#71
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't come off as if they were superior.
Spitfire of ATJ
Sep 2012
#17
I have no problem ignoring how pulpits were "crucial" in flighting slavery and Jim Crow
Major Nikon
Sep 2012
#30
Religion, or just Christianity? Your argument seems to be primarily against Western...
TreasonousBastard
Sep 2012
#41
Ah yes, the old tired well debunked argument that atheism fueled Hitler and Stalin's genocides
Major Nikon
Sep 2012
#42
You may remain clueless, for all I care. "Reason" may not have killed, but...
TreasonousBastard
Sep 2012
#45
So, you have no alternative ethic yourself, is that it? Just winging it while...
TreasonousBastard
Sep 2012
#48
There's a sock and some other stuff and it's also about Israel & the US and some other stuff . . .
patrice
Sep 2012
#62
True Story: People need to understand that this is a movement that is willing to do whatever they
patrice
Sep 2012
#51
Have you all noticed that "Liberty" University has major facilities funded by the LaHaye, as in the
patrice
Sep 2012
#52
My goodness! What a convenient excuse for building KILLING machines, for such a hand$$$ome
patrice
Sep 2012
#53
Anybody besides me notice how much Rev. Hagee resembles Jonathan Winters in "The Loved One"?
Bette Noir
Sep 2012
#56
These. ARE. blasphemers. Practically every word out of their mouths reveals they equate
patrice
Sep 2012
#58
100K responded to Bush criticism of Israel = THESE are the people who CAUSED the war on Iraq.
patrice
Sep 2012
#59
you are correct, It is not even historic Evangelicalism, However, among the "Christian-right"
Douglas Carpenter
Sep 2012
#67