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Celerity

(55,049 posts)
4. the Chinese did not invent Roman/Italian pasta, that is a myth
Mon Oct 10, 2022, 07:48 AM
Oct 2022
Did pasta come from China? Absolutely not, historians say

https://www.todayonline.com/world/did-pasta-come-china-absolutely-not-historians-say



HONG KONG — Pasta is Italy’s staple food, but it’s not only Italians who indulge in platefuls of the doughy concoction every day. People all over the world adore it. It comes in more than 300 shapes: long, as in spaghetti; flat, as in fettuccine; hollow (bucatini); short, as in penne; the butterfly-shaped farfalle and ear-shaped orecchiette; tubular (rigatoni); and stuffed, in varieties such as tortellini and ravioli. It can be bought dry or freshly made from egg-based dough. World Pasta Day, held each October, celebrates the universal love of this staple of the Mediterranean diet.

But who invented pasta? Legend has it that spaghetti is descended from noodles, based on the premise that Venetian nobleman and merchant Marco Polo imported long, worm-like strands of the latter to Italy from China in the late 13th century. To many, though, the Chinese origins of Italian pasta are a myth. It is true that Marco Polo did spend several years in China, learning the country’s traditions and culture, and he may have brought Chinese noodles and other foods back from his journeys. But Italian food historians say pasta culture was already flourishing in the Mediterranean region centuries before he travelled east, among the ancient Greeks and later among the Romans.

“Noodles are one thing, pasta another food altogether,” says Ms Anna Maria Pellegrino, a food historian and a member of the Italian Academy of Cuisine. “They reflect two separate culinary cultures and identities that have developed in parallel, the only conjunction being the need for nourishment and, above all, to share around the same table feelings and everyday life events. “The way they are cooked, the pots, the types of cereals used, the preparation, ingredients and toppings are completely different and specific to each civilisation. There’s no direct link between the Asian and the Italian or Mediterranean ways of mixing cereals with water to create noodles or pasta,” she says.

Ms Pellegrino adds: “Ever since the birth of agriculture, man has learned to hone crop techniques and shape these to his needs, thus mixing grains with water was an automatic step which happened across all civilisations at some given point in time, probably simultaneously,” Historical texts and works by classical poets help to date the first type of primeval pasta to the time of the ancient Greeks. Mr Giorgio Franchetti, a food historian and scholar of ancient Roman history, is the author of a book, Dining With the Ancient Romans, which was recently translated into English. He roundly dismisses the Marco Polo theory about the origins of pasta. “It’s pure nonsense,” he says. “The noodles that Marco Polo maybe brought back with him at the end of the 1200s from China were essentially made with rice and based on a different, oriental culinary tradition that has nothing to do with ours.”

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Thanks. I will buy those fancy atisan shaped pastas that look nice uncooked but have uneven cooking. TheBlackAdder Oct 2022 #1
The best pasta shapes True Dough Oct 2022 #2
The Chinese invented pasta YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #3
the Chinese did not invent Roman/Italian pasta, that is a myth Celerity Oct 2022 #4
Bullshit , Chinese culture has been around far YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #5
Non sequitur. Simply being around longer doesn't prove who invented what. I am not going to argue Celerity Oct 2022 #7
How about being around 4000 years longer than Roman history YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #8
wasn't this about pasta? Javaman Oct 2022 #10
Exactly YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #14
Again, that's not germane to the history of Greco-Roman pasta, which my first reply already Celerity Oct 2022 #12
The Chinese invented Romans. Orrex Oct 2022 #15
No one said that. YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #16
Pretty sure that I haven't claimed that you did Orrex Oct 2022 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #17
The African hominids who shared a common ancestor (ca. 6 to 8 million years ago) with the great apes Celerity Oct 2022 #20
I loves me some A. Afarensis linguini! Orrex Oct 2022 #22
Pliocene Primavera FTW. Was a big hit in the Awash valley area 3.2 million years ago. Celerity Oct 2022 #24
I prefer the old joke by Carl Sagan... Javaman Oct 2022 #27
It might've been from millet but the Chinese YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #18
That wasn't the claim. I never said all types of noodles were Mediterranean in origin, and spaghetti Celerity Oct 2022 #23
The Shanghai dynasty was 3000 years old. YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #25
And? The Chinese were not making pasta then. Also, I think you mean the Shang dynasty, not Shanghai Celerity Oct 2022 #33
Yes The Shang dynesty... YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #35
Yes The Shang dynesty... YoshidaYui Oct 2022 #36
I have never tried any of these shapes. I like angel hair and rotini. But the recipe below japple Oct 2022 #6
Yeah.... da fuck do they know? 3Hotdogs Oct 2022 #9
Maybe that's why she's your ex? COL Mustard Oct 2022 #34
I am Sicilian American, and I break my spaghetti in half to cook. tblue37 Oct 2022 #38
Well, at least I know enough COL Mustard Oct 2022 #39
My aunt was Italian, from New York. Genki Hikari Oct 2022 #43
San Buenevte, approx. 20 miles north of Rome. 3Hotdogs Oct 2022 #45
I am with you on Angel Hair True Blue American Oct 2022 #26
I been mixing sweet basil, or garlic with a few tablespoons of Costco basil pesto. 3Hotdogs Oct 2022 #46
I admit True Blue American Oct 2022 #51
Well, well once again... MiHale Oct 2022 #11
What time do I show up? True Blue American Oct 2022 #28
Think I'll make fettuccine... MiHale Oct 2022 #41
Wow! A poet chef! WhiteTara Oct 2022 #37
Bucatini is cool because of the little tubes BigmanPigman Oct 2022 #13
Seems most of us prefer True Blue American Oct 2022 #29
On word caught my eye.."extruded". In my world the best pasta is not extruded, it is hand cut or Ninga Oct 2022 #21
the thread within this post is slowly becoming a DU classic thread... Javaman Oct 2022 #30
I'm very much an academic creature, I love history, I love food, I tend to be a stickler in Celerity Oct 2022 #40
There is a new pasta shape called cascatelli Danascot Oct 2022 #31
oops Kali Oct 2022 #50
For me it's a matter of fresh vs dried Auggie Oct 2022 #32
F.B.I. responds. usonian Oct 2022 #42
I might have cared about this before diabetes Genki Hikari Oct 2022 #44
Bucatini or fusilli with arabiata sauce IcyPeas Oct 2022 #47
Wow, some hate in that article for angel hair AwakeAtLast Oct 2022 #48
cascatelli! Kali Oct 2022 #49
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