Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

The Velveteen Ocelot

(131,161 posts)
14. The NTSB report is very detailed and very thorough.
Sat Sep 10, 2016, 11:52 AM
Sep 2016

The whole thing is here: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1003.pdf

The way the NTSB works is this: When an accident occurs they send a "go-team" of NTSB and FAA people to inspect the scene, collect evidence and reassemble the wreckage to the extent possible. The agency calls on "interested parties" to participate in the investigation: these normally include the aircraft manufacturer and parts manufacturers, the airline, and the pilots' union, ALPA. Since these entities usually have conflicting interests, involving them on an equal basis is intended to prevent any of them from having too much influence on the probable cause findings. The airline will want the accident to have been caused by some defect in the airplane caused by the manufacturer; the manufacturer will want the cause to have been a failure on the part of the airline - maybe maintenance or pilot training. Assigning fault (not the same as the NTSB's probable cause) to the pilots doesn't get the airline off the hook in terms of legal liability because of the doctrine of respondeat superior (the employer is liable for the acts of the employee). Therefore, even if the conclusion is pilot error the airline will still be responsible if there is litigation and a jury reaches the same conclusion (the NTSB's probable cause conclusions are not admissible in court). Airlines also get stuck for damages in most accident court cases because of the higher standard of care required of a common carrier.

In this case the NTSB's probable cause findings were as follows:

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this
accident was the ingestion of large birds into each engine, which resulted in an almost total loss
of thrust in both engines and the subsequent ditching on the Hudson River. Contributing to the
fuselage damage and resulting unavailability of the aft slide/rafts were (1) the Federal Aviation
Administration’s approval of ditching certification without determining whether pilots could
attain the ditching parameters without engine thrust, (2) the lack of industry flight crew training
and guidance on ditching techniques, and (3) the captain’s resulting difficulty maintaining his
intended airspeed on final approach due to the task saturation resulting from the emergency
situation.

Contributing to the survivability of the accident was (1) the decision-making of the flight
crewmembers and their crew resource management during the accident sequence; (2) the
fortuitous use of an airplane that was equipped for an extended overwater flight, including the
availability of the forward slide/rafts, even though it was not required to be so equipped; (3) the
performance of the cabin crewmembers while expediting the evacuation of the airplane; and
(4) the proximity of the emergency responders to the accident site and their immediate and
appropriate response to the accident.


The only item that could be interpreted in any way as any kind of flight crew deficiency was "the captain's difficulty maintaining his intended airspeed on final approach due to the task saturation resulting from the emergency situation." But even this is attributable not to negligence or poor judgment but to human factors resulting from what the NTSB considered to be industry-wide inadequate guidance and training on ditching techniques. If the crew had never been trained on ditching in the first place it could be expected that they would be task saturated because they had to invent a procedure on the fly. In contrast, the agency attributed the fact that everyone survived in part to "the decision-making of the flightcrewmembers and their crew resource management during the accident sequence."

Sounds to me like the NTSB - far from conducting a witch hunt - thought the crew did a fine job. But that doesn't make for a very good movie, does it? "Government Agency Fails To Crucify Heroic Pilot But Instead Praises Him For Saving Passengers" doesn't get those gummint-hatin' juices going.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Something else to take away from the movie. NightWatcher Sep 2016 #1
I wouldn't mind being stuck on a deserted island with him lunatica Sep 2016 #2
Until you get a cavity and Dr Iceskate comes around for you. NightWatcher Sep 2016 #3
You have to bring your own soccer ball tho. dixiegrrrrl Sep 2016 #6
Or George Clooney Xipe Totec Sep 2016 #53
The job of the NTSB is not to assign blame or fault The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #4
I haven't read Sully's book--which is what the movie is based on-- mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #5
I know 'true story' pieces often create conflict JonLP24 Sep 2016 #12
The NTSB report is very detailed and very thorough. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #14
Thanks for linking to the NTSB report mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #17
Thanks, Velveteen Ocelot and Mnhtnbb Hortensis Sep 2016 #19
The NTSB is the envy of the world Major Nikon Sep 2016 #25
Your post gives me further evidence when I argue with Libertarians Yavin4 Sep 2016 #49
The FAA and the NTSB are separate agencies, but I get your point. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #50
They wouldn't go out of business. Yavin4 Sep 2016 #51
I saw it today too! cwydro Sep 2016 #7
Good fiction usually is! whistler162 Sep 2016 #29
Why do you call it fiction? cwydro Sep 2016 #30
NPR Tom Hanks interview whistler162 Sep 2016 #32
I'll check it out, thanks! cwydro Sep 2016 #33
As is good non-fiction as well! LanternWaste Sep 2016 #41
Problem is too much of the story appears whistler162 Sep 2016 #47
insurance investigation & deposition fiction is an underrated genre Bucky Sep 2016 #8
I saw it yesterday and thought it was excellent! There were no crazy story lines. I found it Upthevibe Sep 2016 #9
Don't take this movie as being an accurate depiction of how the process works. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #16
Right. mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #18
Because 9/11 involved criminal acts the NTSB was not the primary investigator. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #20
The "technical assistance" of the NTSB has left a lot of unanswered questions regarding 9/11 mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #21
Me, too. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #22
I also enjoy people who upon hearing a joke, will correct it for accuracy LanternWaste Sep 2016 #42
I haven't seen the movie yet, but from the promos it appears as if the process is highly dramatized Major Nikon Sep 2016 #26
"Ask-The-Pilot" has a good take on this film. . . DinahMoeHum Sep 2016 #10
Oh? Hmm...I'm sure a corporate mouthpiece has no axe to grind... mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #11
You also have those on the left who raise nutty allegations about the NTSB Major Nikon Sep 2016 #28
As The Nation said in May 2002, getting rid of Wellstone was a passion for Bush, Karl Rove, and mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #31
"couldn't crash Wellstone's plane" Major Nikon Sep 2016 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author mnhtnbb Sep 2016 #35
Some people are really Koo-Koo. MicaelS Sep 2016 #36
Stuff like that was all over DU and still pops up from time to time Major Nikon Sep 2016 #38
The mind control stuff is/was more real JonLP24 Sep 2016 #44
All conspiracy theory nonsense has an element of possibility Major Nikon Sep 2016 #45
I'm completely unfamiliar with emp JonLP24 Sep 2016 #46
That accident was caused by plain old pilot error. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #37
I always thought the true tragedy is nobody said anything about the pilots Major Nikon Sep 2016 #39
I read the entire article and all the comments. MicaelS Sep 2016 #13
And here are some comments from NTSB investigators The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2016 #15
I always thought the NTSB was somewhat deferential to Sully in the Probable Cause findings. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2016 #24
For the most part NTSB reports are findings of fact Major Nikon Sep 2016 #27
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2016 #23
Glad You Liked It ProfessorGAC Sep 2016 #40
Your critique seems full of relevant knowledge in regards to the films. LanternWaste Sep 2016 #43
Huh? ProfessorGAC Sep 2016 #48
DON'T SPOIL THE ENDING!!!!!! alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #52
Latest Discussions»The DU Lounge»Just back from seeing the...»Reply #14