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Starry Messenger

(32,382 posts)
4. I know what you're saying.
Sun Dec 11, 2011, 10:40 PM
Dec 2011

Last edited Sun Dec 11, 2011, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)

The argument stems from the difference between "idealism" and "materialism" in Marxism. (And by idealism, it is meant anything outside of objective reality--imaginary, thought-based; not idealism like wanting good things to happen) The human nature idealist argument is that humans have some quality that existed outside of our time before even appearing in nature--that there is some a priori quality that we take on simply because it was bestowed on us from outside and it is unchanging. Usually this is where we get into spiritual areas, because if this "nature" didn't derive from our experiences and existence and is eternal, it must be otherworldy. And it will never change.

Materialism says that humans are the result of a historical process in nature. We have behaviors that are common to our experience, but how and why did they arise? Was there a spirit that breathed qualities into us? Or did we evolve depending on the conditions that we faced, our social nature, and the fact that we depend on each other for survival, which are all unique qualities of our species. Are we "naturally greedy", or is this a basic primitive survival behavior that gets aggravated in a fight for resources? and becomes totally malignant under capitalism. Could it be totally stemmed in a change of economic conditions? The idealist wouldn't think so, there is the thought that man will "revert" to some unchanging nature handed down on high no matter what the conditions.

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Are there any countries that are like this? dkf Dec 2011 #1
What a great resource! Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #2
Good link, thanks. About Myth #4: Socialism is against human nature: PETRUS Dec 2011 #3
I know what you're saying. Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #4
That's helpful, thanks. PETRUS Dec 2011 #6
You're welcome. Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #10
Excellent post - TBF Dec 2011 #5
In regards to #5 white_wolf Dec 2011 #7
Number 6 socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #8
And BTW marmar, I'm glad to see you here socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #9
Thanks for sharing this! GreenPartyVoter Dec 2011 #11
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