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Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
5. In a word, maybe.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:43 PM
Jul 2013

Or, if you were to allow me more than one word, yes and no.

There wasn't much of a middle class in continental Europe or in England when he wrote (think Dickens!), and he couldn't have anticipated its development and elaborations in the 20th century.

But that middle class may turn out to have been a transient phenomenon largely due to the New Deal (sure looks that way these days), in which case it may turn out that, as the oligarchs grab it all, they will succeed in putting Marx's predictions back on track.

Our particular set of oligarchs seem to be a special breed, unlike anything the world has seen before. In medieval times, the crowned heads were also pretty greedy, and had to contend with Jacqueries every now and then, but they eventually wised up enough to heed the wisdom of Macchiavelli and leave the peasants enough crumbs so they had something to lose if they rebelled.

What's "special" about the modern variety is the perversity with which they pursue their own short-term interests, heedless of what they are doing to the world.

Their own children will have to live with the environmental consequences of their actions (climate change, destruction of the aquifers, poisoning of the atmosphere and the oceans, etc.), and even if they are planning to retreat into some sort of bubble communities, the resulting quality of life, even for them, will have to be bleak.

They are dooming their own progeny to a life that is likely to be, at best, comparable to living in a domed city on Mars.

Recommendations

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In a word, yes. Proud Public Servant Jul 2013 #1
In a word, no. ChairmanAgnostic Jul 2013 #2
Perhaps. TBF Jul 2013 #3
hmmm pretty interesting limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #7
Marx and Engels wrote each other letters talking about the problem. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #4
Thanks for the links limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #11
In a word, maybe. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #5
So the middle class in some places may turn out to have been sort of temporary. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #8
Well to me that's the crux of this question...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #9
Yeah it really seems that way. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #10
There's a lot of history behind ALL of these reform/revolution arguments.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #12
Yeah this is limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #13
Well I'm not so sure that eminent domain couldn't be used.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #14
They should be using eminent domain for that. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #16
reform vs revolution DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #28
Just a quick reply as I have to go to work in a few.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #29
my reply DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #30
Well once again, I don't think that it's a guarantee that the ....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #31
Marx didn't get industry. joshcryer Jul 2013 #6
"at no point in history did new productive facilities actually change the mode of production" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #20
That's a Jensen view. joshcryer Aug 2013 #21
i appreciate the name-dropping BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #22
I don't reject that notion. joshcryer Aug 2013 #23
"Ideally historical materialism would've said, BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #24
it was actually utopian socialists, e.g. the saint simonians - BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #25
I didn't say historical materialism said that. joshcryer Aug 2013 #32
i'm sorry historical materialism didnt say what you wanted it to say BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #33
What do you think "new productive faculties" are? joshcryer Aug 2013 #34
you remain wrong about the "new productive faculties" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #36
Capitalism is inherently hierarchical. joshcryer Aug 2013 #37
what is workplace alienation? BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #38
Eh. Disengagement commenced. joshcryer Aug 2013 #39
Three things changed since Marx that were firsts in history Taverner Aug 2013 #15
Coal, oil and gas certainly did fuel the development of modern society. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #17
The Peak Oil Hypothesis still holds Taverner Aug 2013 #18
no BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #19
Yes he did, for a couple of reasons Warpy Aug 2013 #26
Not at all. David__77 Aug 2013 #27
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