Socialist Progressives

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)

8. So the middle class in some places may turn out to have been sort of temporary.

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 11:59 PM

Aug 2013

Like here in the US. So look at Detroit, and other places. It's sad to see the trend that its happening, but it could open some possibilities for socialism as people are searching for a solution that hasn't been tried yet.

Some cities are talking about using eminent domain to take houses off the market, because of the foreclosure crisis.

There are also some Mondragon-style cooperatives that people are doing. There are some in Cleveland that seem to be doing pretty well.

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Did Marx underestimate the power of the middle class ? [View all] limpyhobbler Jul 2013 OP

In a word, yes. Proud Public Servant Jul 2013 #1

In a word, no. ChairmanAgnostic Jul 2013 #2

Perhaps. TBF Jul 2013 #3

hmmm pretty interesting limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #7

Marx and Engels wrote each other letters talking about the problem. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #4

Thanks for the links limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #11

In a word, maybe. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #5

So the middle class in some places may turn out to have been sort of temporary. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #8

Well to me that's the crux of this question...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #9

Yeah it really seems that way. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #10

There's a lot of history behind ALL of these reform/revolution arguments.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #12

Yeah this is limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #13

Well I'm not so sure that eminent domain couldn't be used.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #14

They should be using eminent domain for that. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #16

reform vs revolution DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #28

Just a quick reply as I have to go to work in a few.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #29

my reply DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #30

Well once again, I don't think that it's a guarantee that the ....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #31

Marx didn't get industry. joshcryer Jul 2013 #6

"at no point in history did new productive facilities actually change the mode of production" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #20

That's a Jensen view. joshcryer Aug 2013 #21

i appreciate the name-dropping BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #22

I don't reject that notion. joshcryer Aug 2013 #23

"Ideally historical materialism would've said, BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #24

it was actually utopian socialists, e.g. the saint simonians - BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #25

I didn't say historical materialism said that. joshcryer Aug 2013 #32

i'm sorry historical materialism didnt say what you wanted it to say BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #33

What do you think "new productive faculties" are? joshcryer Aug 2013 #34

you remain wrong about the "new productive faculties" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #36

Capitalism is inherently hierarchical. joshcryer Aug 2013 #37

what is workplace alienation? BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #38

Eh. Disengagement commenced. joshcryer Aug 2013 #39

Three things changed since Marx that were firsts in history Taverner Aug 2013 #15

Coal, oil and gas certainly did fuel the development of modern society. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #17

The Peak Oil Hypothesis still holds Taverner Aug 2013 #18

no BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #19

Yes he did, for a couple of reasons Warpy Aug 2013 #26

Not at all. David__77 Aug 2013 #27