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socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
31. Well once again, I don't think that it's a guarantee that the .......
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 07:56 PM
Aug 2013

Scandinavian countries are somehow "extra" resistant to the neo-liberalism that has taken over everywhere else. It is true that there are some mitigating factors involved in this sector of the world that might make them slightly more resistant, like a more homogenous population (less chance of floating the "others are gaming the system" meme), a little bit more history of social democracy, elections that are based less on who has the most money to buy ads and votes, and, most importantly IMO, the fact that neo-liberalism has had several decades to FAIL in other parts of the globe before it's begun to be tried in Scandinavia on a more serious basis. But NONE of these factors will guarantee that Scandinavia will not be the next domino to fall to the perils of privatization, austerity, and all of the other neo-liberal claptrap. I don't see them being ultimately resistant because, under ANY sort of capitalist system, MONEY and ownership is power and that power will ALWAYS win out in the end. Sometimes it takes longer than other times, but without organized working class resistance, money will win out.

There are many different tendencies of communist and Marxist thought. Some are based more on the classic readings of Marx and Engels than others. In any system there will be people who will try to gain advantage. Trots call them opportunists. A bottom up representative system of one person, one vote using delegates that are IMMEDIATELY recallable and making an wage equivalent to the average of the workers they represent, with provisions for legal punishment for taking more than this, SHOULD take care of MOST of the opportunists. The rest of them will have to be outvoted. Capitalism hasn't worked or, more properly, I should say that capitalism no LONGER works. It's time to take the next step. Even if it's wrong, it needs to be tried because the alternative is barbarism.

Oh and don't EVEN go there with the Chinese. They are no longer even in the BALLPARK of socialism.

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In a word, yes. Proud Public Servant Jul 2013 #1
In a word, no. ChairmanAgnostic Jul 2013 #2
Perhaps. TBF Jul 2013 #3
hmmm pretty interesting limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #7
Marx and Engels wrote each other letters talking about the problem. Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #4
Thanks for the links limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #11
In a word, maybe. Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #5
So the middle class in some places may turn out to have been sort of temporary. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #8
Well to me that's the crux of this question...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #9
Yeah it really seems that way. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #10
There's a lot of history behind ALL of these reform/revolution arguments.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #12
Yeah this is limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #13
Well I'm not so sure that eminent domain couldn't be used.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #14
They should be using eminent domain for that. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #16
reform vs revolution DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #28
Just a quick reply as I have to go to work in a few.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #29
my reply DonCoquixote Aug 2013 #30
Well once again, I don't think that it's a guarantee that the ....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #31
Marx didn't get industry. joshcryer Jul 2013 #6
"at no point in history did new productive facilities actually change the mode of production" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #20
That's a Jensen view. joshcryer Aug 2013 #21
i appreciate the name-dropping BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #22
I don't reject that notion. joshcryer Aug 2013 #23
"Ideally historical materialism would've said, BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #24
it was actually utopian socialists, e.g. the saint simonians - BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #25
I didn't say historical materialism said that. joshcryer Aug 2013 #32
i'm sorry historical materialism didnt say what you wanted it to say BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #33
What do you think "new productive faculties" are? joshcryer Aug 2013 #34
you remain wrong about the "new productive faculties" BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #36
Capitalism is inherently hierarchical. joshcryer Aug 2013 #37
what is workplace alienation? BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #38
Eh. Disengagement commenced. joshcryer Aug 2013 #39
Three things changed since Marx that were firsts in history Taverner Aug 2013 #15
Coal, oil and gas certainly did fuel the development of modern society. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #17
The Peak Oil Hypothesis still holds Taverner Aug 2013 #18
no BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #19
Yes he did, for a couple of reasons Warpy Aug 2013 #26
Not at all. David__77 Aug 2013 #27
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